Balance is nearly as bad as in BETA 3

Mecha-Lenin

Join Date 02/2006

+36

Balance is nearly as bad as in BETA 3

Today I have talked with Quar. He said that Rebellion team (SD?IC? I dont know anymore) is composed of morons incapable of balancing the game. I opposed, saying that I have faith in them and after I red "Known Issues" I'm pretty certain that patching can't go in bad direction. Or can it?

Let's go through most glaring issues:

Corvettes- still totally OP. Enough had been said already. I'm sick of repeating how unbalanced they are.

SB mobilization- moved to T8. LOL. Just LOL. Seriously? That's the fix? Tech that lets you have 999 offensive starbases roaming the map for 0 supply cost? Eco player can dominate whole game by spamming them and sending to enemy HWs. This tech can't be balanced in it's current state. Half-assed fix is making it very unaccesible at t8+lots of prereqs, but what's the point.

REAL FIX: MAKE MOBILE SBs ABLE TO JUMP ONLY TO FRIENDLY GRAV WEELS. REQ: T6-8, NO PREREQ.

Fairly accessible, useful mid-late game. Great defensive upgrade. Still pretty useful in offensive.

Strip to the Core: From what I hear it's barely changed, haven't had time to test it myself.

Bottom line: Balance is horrible. Personally, I find game unplayable. Corvettes ruin early game, SB mobilization and STTC mid/late game.

I love this game, I have played it for 2 year and won't give up on it so easily, but if balance will not improve, I'm out of here. YES, it's that bad.

PS: Had a few games and saw no MDs, statbility seems to be much better. But it's pretty early to say.

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Mobilized starbases need to cost 50 fleet supply, and have a period of powering up after the jump during which they are vulnerable and immobile (regeneration, movement, abilities, SC disabled).

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Quoting Mecha-Lenin,

reply 25

Too complex IMO. Besides, it's still pretty OP late game. You are essentially giving VR 5(?) titan slots

True but with mobile sb they will always have more than 1 Titan. I rather limit mobile sb than where they can phase jump to.

Very simple solution ..... your way of thinking ..... would be make phase SB jump available on planets with phase jump inhibitors..... That way you can prevent sending constant SBs to friendly grav wells while defending.

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Quoting DaxxTrias,

reply 16

We went through what, 34 patches in diplomacy (1.34 right?) I'm sure it won't kill us to go through a few for Reb. Just saying

Numbering doesn't work like that...for example, you might have 1.2, 1.21, 1.22, and 1.23 but no other 1.2x (I don't recall the exact numbers)...I don't know how many patches there were but I'm pretty sure it wasn't 34...

Anyway that is hardly comforting...it took over 2 years to go from diplomacy v1.00 to v1.34, and that was with one expansion that added far less content than rebellion...and, there still were issues with v1.34...that is not encouraging, that is foreboding...

Quoting Polistes,

reply 17

Yes there are "issues" but stardock have a great track record in trying to fix things.

Operative word in your sentence is "trying"...change does not imply progress, trying does not imply success...

Gal Civ II: ToA still has balance issues and bugs, and don't even get me started on the magic fairy games...so the "great track record" you point to is a myth in regards to balance...Stardock no doubt is dedicated and tries, but when it comes to game balance they just fail...

Everything else is done right...the have a great engine (though that's more thanks to Ironclad), a great backstory/lore, great game concepts, great graphics/effects, great music, great moddability, great everything but balance...yet that one issue is so pervasive that it ruins the game for some people...maybe it doesn't ruin it for you, but the universe doesn't revolve around you...just because it isn't an issue for you doesn't mean it isn't an issue...

Quoting Polistes,

reply 21

Its simply because I don't care, I don't let these things detract from my gaming experince. Maybe they suck for hyper competitive people but if you just want to take it easy and have fun this game is excellent.

A more damning statement was never made...if you don't care, then why the hell are you criticizing people who do?????

If you were at the car dealer checking out sport cars, you wouldn't get all pissy at the guy who expected his hot mustang to be able to do 90 mph no problem, would you? Maybe you just want to drive a Mustang cause it looks cool, but not everyone is you...some people want performance out of their sports car and it'd be ludicrous to criticize them for having a reasonable expectation...

You simply are wrong...these are serious balance issues, they are not things only noticeable to the uber elite player base...

Mecha and Qu4r and Star may not be nice...they may lack tact, they may rant, rage, and troll...every word from their mouths may not always be filled with constructive criticism...but they do know what they are talking about, and they are essentially right in their analysis...

This is not the first time you have pulled this BS...you don't just criticize them for being "not nice and mushy gushy to the devs"...you don't limit your criticism to just a select group of forum members...you blatantly criticize anyone who believes this game has poor game balance and expects better because, well, you just don't like those people so clearly their viewpoints are wrong...your arguments are baseless, they are non-sequitors, and they contribute nothing....

Mecha actually provided a very tangible suggestion to fix a pervasive problem...his thread has gotten others (Greg, for example) to provide other thoughtfull ideas...you have provided nothing, nothing...while you get your panties in a knot because some people actually care about this game, others are actually out on ICO testing it and giving feedback here on how the game can be improved...is Mecha doing it in the best manner? NO, but he's doing more than you....

"Ah, fanboys....the worst form of groupthink..."

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I am always amazed by how ungrateful people can be in these circumstances. JJBuck2? I take my hat of to you. Couldn't have put it better myself.

Lets try and help the devs yeah, rather than just hurl abuse at them? Ok, so one or two things are a little overpowered, you think now they're just going to sit back and ignore us? Whining (and yes, it's whining) gets you nowhere; two of the most recent updates I've seen (removing techs from Vasari Rebels and TEC Loyals) came about because someone made a point, made it in a civil manner, and they took notice.

Besides, so there's a few problems, not like it ruins the whole game, surely? I think we're just taking advantage of the fact that things ARE open to change to just try and get our own ideas into the game, be them good or not. Personally, I would find the starbase issue hard to fix; your friendly gravity wells isn't actually too bad a solution but it has its problems, as done any solution, this seems to me like a quick fix before they actually TRY and fix it.

For me, literally the changes that make me the happiest are the ones that make sense, not the ones that everybody moans about.

I don't pretend to be an elite at this game, I don't pretend to know its inner workings or to have memorised every stat, so yeah, if you want to have a go at me for not knowing what I'm talking about take a shot, I'm not losing a wink of sleep over voicing my opinions alongside every other Tom, Dick and Harry that logs onto these forums.

And if all else fails? Play some single player. No A.I. I've seen yet takes advantages of these things, they don't get tW concept of when something is overpowered.

My own pointless rant over, go back to your busy lives!

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Volt_Cruelerz

Join Date 06/2008

+115

In all honesty, taking away Slave Labor IMO is a bigger nerf to the VR than people give it credit for..

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Polistes

Join Date 02/2008

+19

@selucia or however its spelled:

I would not call myself a fanboy. but to raise concerns in such a manner is childish and honestly its not worth taking seriously. There is something called tact and a lot of the more vocal MP'ers do not have it. (Some do but they don't post as often)

There is also something called constructive criticism, perhaps people should learn to use it more.

In Short there is a proper way to draw attention to a possible issue and an improper way to draw attention to an issue and mecha's way in this thread is improper.

Another cute phrase is you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Perhaps applying that as well may help

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Quoting Polistes,

reply 32

Because they are criticizing in an an unessesarily hostile way and I do care about that. There are other ways to draw attention to issues than to refer to someone as a moron or the devs "can't balance shit".

I would not call myself a fanboy. but to raise concerns in such a manner is childish and honestly its not worth taking seriously. There is something called tact and a lot of the more vocal MP'ers do not have it. (Some do but they don't post as often)

There is also something called constructive criticism, perhaps people should learn tyo use it more.

In Short there is a proper way to draw attention to a possible issue and an improper way to draw attention to an issue and mecha's way in this thread is improper.

Are you British?

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TobiWahn_Kenobi

Join Date 08/2008

+83

Well, you could limit the number of Starbases to the number of planets a player has. Then it is still a bit OP but he cannot go after you with 999 SB

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Quoting TobiWahn_Kenobi,

reply 34

Well, you could limit the number of Starbases to the number of planets a player has. Then it is still a bit OP but he cannot go after you with 999 SB

Nope, only 998. Still more slots available than practical to use.

I like the idea of friendly well only movement, because it imposes no artificial, arbitrary, numerical limitations. It's only limitations are basic game mechanics. It's easier to balance this way. It's Occam's Razor. You can alter 10 things to limit OPness of X, but you're just alleviating the problem, avoiding facing it.

Game should be intuitive, no matter how complex it is. Several changes to mobile SBs to make them balanced, even if they fixed the problem, seem just too invasive.

On top of that, you end up with just another t8 high cost eco slot only gadget you use in 1/20 of games.

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Polistes

Join Date 02/2008

+19

Quoting Mecha-Lenin,

reply 33

Quoting Polistes,
reply 32
Because they are criticizing in an an unessesarily hostile way and I do care about that. There are other ways to draw attention to issues than to refer to someone as a moron or the devs "can't balance shit".

I would not call myself a fanboy. but to raise concerns in such a manner is childish and honestly its not worth taking seriously. There is something called tact and a lot of the more vocal MP'ers do not have it. (Some do but they don't post as often)

There is also something called constructive criticism, perhaps people should learn tyo use it more.

In Short there is a proper way to draw attention to a possible issue and an improper way to draw attention to an issue and mecha's way in this thread is improper.

Are you British?

No I am American that was raised with manners. And taught to try and be respectful of others. Odd I know especially in this day and age where its gimme everything NAO and if its not just right bitch and moan nonstop, screw being grateful or polite.

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Quoting Yarlen,

reply 1

Version 1.02 will contain a number of balance changes that we're still working on.

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/426655

Join the Patch Lotto!

every ship should have self-destruct option.

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Quoting Moustachio86,

reply 30

Besides, so there's a few problems, not like it ruins the whole game, surely?

In all seriousness, it really does...I do not know what types of games you are playing, but human vs. human games are in very very bad shape...

Quoting Moustachio86,

reply 30

Lets try and help the devs yeah, rather than just hurl abuse at them?

You have to understand that some of the forum members here have a lot of history with the game and with the devs...some people have been around sinc the beta of original sins...some of us have even been around since SD was working on Galactic Civilizations II...

Obviously the lack of balance is not apparent to everyone, but it is quite apparent to the MP community and it really is ruining the MP experience...quite simply, once you get to a certain skill level, the game just loses the fun factor...

Quoting Moustachio86,

reply 30

I think we're just taking advantage of the fact that things ARE open to change to just try and get our own ideas into the game, be them good or not.

Quoting Moustachio86,

reply 30

two of the most recent updates I've seen (removing techs from Vasari Rebels and TEC Loyals) came about because someone made a point, made it in a civil manner, and they took notice.

It's actually quite the opposite...first, there just is too much for them to look at...furthermore, the devs don't have a grasp on game balance in general, and as such they can't competently vet all the ideas people put on the forums...as such, they depend heavily on a core group of trusted testers that give their advice behind the scenes...it's been like this for quite awhile; members like Mecha aren't stupid...they don't expect the devs to listen to them...

I for one have no expectation that the devs listen to anything I say...I participate because I can incorporate ideas and opinions from here into my own personal mod...I don't need the devs to change the game for me, but the MP community is not so lucky and really are in a very tight spot....

Quoting Moustachio86,

reply 30

And if all else fails? Play some single player. No A.I. I've seen yet takes advantages of these things, they don't get tW concept of when something is overpowered.

This doesn't work, unfortunately...the people who are noticing the balance issues are in an entirely different league of skill...for them, playing against the AI just isn't fun, it really isn't....

This rift in the forums continually comes up, and the fundamental source of it is that SP guys just can't empathize with the MP crowd...I can respect SP people who just want to casually play the game, and I see no problem with that...unfortunately, these SP people don't always stay in their own world...they go out of their way to criticize others for wanting a good MP experience, like it is a sin to play this game competitively against other humans and expect it to be reasonably balanced...

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Quoting Polistes,

reply 36

You have nothing to say yourself, yet you try to educate others how they should say something which actually carries some importance. Very, very arrogant.

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Polistes

Join Date 02/2008

+19

Whatever you say mecha

@Seleuceia being around for a long time does not nor should not give you the right to talk crap, if you have issues you can raise them in a civil manner, I assure this is more effective than what mecha does.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2410

The forum isn't here for you to troll.

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