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Dorian Gray II
Dorian Gray II
Join Date 04/2003
+15

v2.7 Galaxy Generation (something is really amiss)

June 24, 2024 11:30:35 PM from Galactic Civilizations IV ForumsGalactic Civilizations IV Forums

1. As far as sector generation, there needs to be a value more definitive than "Many" in the UI.  This is just nuts!

2. The following are the settings from most recent "prefs.ini", yet I cannot tell they are even being used.

Note that 'GalaxySize=Huge' below is a result of 'GalaxySize=Large' in the UI.  The 'Large' category no longer exists in the XML files and was replaced by 'Huge'.  (a complete hack...)

[GalaxySettings]
StarClusterQuantity=Many
GalaxySize=Huge
MultiplayerGalaxySize=
GalaxyStyle=Scattered
MaxSectorSize=Huge
PlayerStartingSectorSize=Medium
PlayerStartingLocationSetting=StartAloneInSector
StarFrequency=Occasional
PlanetFrequency=Common
HabitablePlanetFrequency=Occasional
ExtremePlanetFrequency=Occasional
AsteroidFrequency=Occasional
ResourceFrequency=Occasional
BlackHoleFrequency=Occasional
AnomalyFrequency=Occasional
NebulaFrequency=Occasional
PrecursorRelicFrequency=Occasional
AscensionGateFrequency=Occasional
PirateBaseFrequency=Occasional

3.  So, this 'Huge' map has:

  • 1 Medium Sector
  • 4 Small Sectors
  • 5 Tiny Sectors
  • a total of 27 uncolonized planets (for 16 Civilizations!)

4.  What is now being generated are some of the most boring, uninspired maps ever!  Was this even play-tested?

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Dorian Gray II
Dorian Gray II
Join Date 04/2003
+15
Reply #1 June 24, 2024 11:37:59 PM
from Galactic Civilizations IV ForumsGalactic Civilizations IV Forums

And the following value?  It means nothing in v2.7.

  • PlayerStartingLocationSetting=StartAloneInSector

I encountered the Drengin on turn 2!

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Dorian Gray II
Zabik_2
Join Date 11/2022
+22 moderator
Reply #2 June 25, 2024 5:08:29 AM
from Galactic Civilizations IV ForumsGalactic Civilizations IV Forums

Hello Dorian, 

thanks for the detailed feedback. The map generator tries to spread out the civs. But if there are more civs than sectors, some will get into a single sector. The PlayerStartingLocationSetting is a good insight. Could be that it does not give the human player a preference, it is supposed to

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Dorian Gray II
Dorian Gray II
Join Date 04/2003
+15
Reply #3 June 25, 2024 6:43:00 AM
from Galactic Civilizations IV ForumsGalactic Civilizations IV Forums

The following (StarClusterQuanityDef.xml, not what is contained in MapSizeDefs.xml) appears to dictate number of sectors being generated.

For 'Huge' maps using the 'Many' setting, it appears to be capped at 10 Max Sectors.

I would much prefer for the UI to let me set this value myself rather than all of this senseless obfuscation.

 

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<!--maxsectors are defined here -->
<StarClusterQuantities
xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../Schema/StarClusterQuantityDef.xsd">

  <StarClusterQuantityDef>
    <UniqueID>Tiny</UniqueID>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Singular</Type>
      <MaxCount>1</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Binary</Type>
      <MaxCount>2</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Few</Type>
      <MaxCount>3</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Several</Type>
      <MaxCount>4</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Many</Type>
      <MaxCount>5</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
  </StarClusterQuantityDef>

  <StarClusterQuantityDef>
    <UniqueID>Small</UniqueID>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Singular</Type>
      <MaxCount>1</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Binary</Type>
      <MaxCount>2</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Few</Type>
      <MaxCount>4</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Several</Type>
      <MaxCount>5</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Many</Type>
      <MaxCount>8</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
  </StarClusterQuantityDef>

  <StarClusterQuantityDef>
    <UniqueID>Medium</UniqueID>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Singular</Type>
      <MaxCount>1</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Binary</Type>
      <MaxCount>2</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Few</Type>
      <MaxCount>4</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Several</Type>
      <MaxCount>7</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Many</Type>
      <MaxCount>9</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
  </StarClusterQuantityDef>

  <StarClusterQuantityDef>
    <UniqueID>Huge</UniqueID>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Singular</Type>
      <MaxCount>1</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Binary</Type>
      <MaxCount>2</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Few</Type>
      <MaxCount>4</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Several</Type>
      <MaxCount>7</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Many</Type>
      <MaxCount>10</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
  </StarClusterQuantityDef>

  <StarClusterQuantityDef>
    <UniqueID>Immense</UniqueID>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Singular</Type>
      <MaxCount>1</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Binary</Type>
      <MaxCount>2</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Few</Type>
      <MaxCount>5</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Several</Type>
      <MaxCount>7</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
    <Quantity>
      <Type>Many</Type>
      <MaxCount>16</MaxCount>
    </Quantity>
  </StarClusterQuantityDef>


</StarClusterQuantities>

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Dorian Gray II
Dorian Gray II
Join Date 04/2003
+15
Reply #4 June 25, 2024 12:50:19 PM
from Galactic Civilizations IV ForumsGalactic Civilizations IV Forums

Through much trial and error, I feel it is safe to say that players (even modders) have very little control over Galaxy Map generation.

Via manual manipulation of the Prefs.ini, MapSizeDefs.xml, and StarClusterQuantityDefs.xml, players have:

  • questionable control over the number of Sectors generated
    • via StarClusterQuantityDefs.xml
    • for example, I can get the Galaxy (shown below) generated by setting 'MaxCount=20'
    • however, this only sets an upper limit and on the next map generation, I got a Galaxy of only 3 Sectors!
  • no control over size of Sectors generated
    • contrary to the Sector values in MapSizeDefs.xml
      • the best I can tell, much of the content of MapSizeDefs.xml is legacy junk and, at best, only of subset of those values are used.
    • have yet to see any meaningful influence on the size of Sectors generated
  • no control over max size of Sectors generated (via Prefs.ini)
    • the value 'MaxSectorSize' exists in Pref.ini
    • it can get over-written by the UI when the Galaxy Size is changed
    • but even when it is not over-written, does not appear to set any limit on the max sector size, as implied
  • questionable control over PlayerStartingLocationSetting values (via UI and Prefs.ini)
    • enum type with values of { Random, StartClose, StartNearAIPlayer, DistancedFromOtherPlayers, StartAloneInSector }
    • when the value is set via the UI as 'Civilization Proximity= Far' or Prefs.ini as 'PlayerStartingLocationSetting=StartAloneInSector', it appears to be nothing more than a 'suggestion'
  • questionable control over PlayerStartingSectorSize value
    • is not configurable via the UI, but exists in Prefs.ini
    • when using '=Medium', it is ignored as much as it is not (i.e. in the example below)

Outside of some pre-determined (and obfuscated) map generation parameters, much of the control over Galaxy Map generation has been removed from players

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Dorian Gray II
valkdrvr
Join Date 03/2006
+9
Reply #5 June 26, 2024 6:47:25 AM
from Galactic Civilizations IV ForumsGalactic Civilizations IV Forums

I agree. I also was surprised to see the word obfuscate used. Don't see that word used too much. Anyhow - I've also had some weird map generations since downloading Warlords.  Extra tiny sectors. Neighbors too close. etc. Had to do redo the map several times. I kinda like the randomness of the map generator but I feel there may be too much randomness.

I was going through the forums trying to see where map generation was such a "bug" that they felt it needed to be "fixed". No dice

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Dorian Gray II
Djrell
Join Date 12/2018
0
Reply #6 June 27, 2024 5:23:30 AM
from Galactic Civilizations IV ForumsGalactic Civilizations IV Forums

The galaxies that were being generated a month ago were fun, multiple large sectors, now this is generating trash like shown above, with tiny civs clustered in tiny sectors, and me starting in the only large sector, it is boring, and I am disappointed that the galaxy generation laws changed, so unbalanced now.

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Dorian Gray II
Dizos
Join Date 09/2006
+3
Reply #7 June 29, 2024 12:17:39 AM
from Galactic Civilizations IV ForumsGalactic Civilizations IV Forums

Same here. Starting sector much larger with most civs stuck in very small sectors - never put up a challenge.

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Dorian Gray II
Draver
Join Date 02/2013
+25
Reply #8 June 29, 2024 10:25:52 AM
from Galactic Civilizations IV ForumsGalactic Civilizations IV Forums

Have you guys tried the MoreGigantic mod that Frogboy made ? It increases the size of most sectors. Might help out a little: https://www.galciv4.com/mods/manager/download/64

 

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Dorian Gray II
Dorian Gray II
Join Date 04/2003
+15
Reply #9 September 10, 2024 2:08:12 AM
from Galactic Civilizations IV ForumsGalactic Civilizations IV Forums

Hey devs.

You really need to fix this.

I do not have a history of raising non-issues.

I set the game aside for the past month or two and tried again last night.

Using anything other than the canned default Galaxy settings are a disaster.

I don't know how this all became broken, but players have no real control over these settings anymore.

It is like there is a disconnect between what the UI saves to the XML configs - vs - how those values are now interpreted when it comes time to generate the Galaxy.

Regarding the above Mod, while I appreciate the offer, I am not the least bit interested in either developing or install another Mod just to address a core feature that is broken in the game.

If it takes a Mod to fix the game, then devs need to incorporate it -or- in the alternative, fix the game.

 

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Dorian Gray II
Dizos
Join Date 09/2006
+3
Reply #10 September 11, 2024 2:49:25 PM
from Galactic Civilizations IV ForumsGalactic Civilizations IV Forums

Quoting Dorian Gray II,
reply 9

Hey devs.

You really need to fix this.

I do not have a history of raising non-issues.

I set the game aside for the past month or two and tried again last night.

Using anything other than the canned default Galaxy settings are a disaster.

I don't know how this all became broken, but players have no real control over these settings anymore.

It is like there is a disconnect between what the UI saves to the XML configs - vs - how those values are now interpreted when it comes time to generate the Galaxy.

Regarding the above Mod, while I appreciate the offer, I am not the least bit interested in either developing or install another Mod just to address a core feature that is broken in the game.

If it takes a Mod to fix the game, then devs need to incorporate it -or- in the alternative, fix the game.

 
This 100%

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Dorian Gray II
courtneyme109
Join Date 08/2007
+15
Reply #11 September 11, 2024 4:25:08 PM
from Galactic Civilizations IV ForumsGalactic Civilizations IV Forums

Quoting Draver,
reply 8

Have you guys tried the MoreGigantic mod that Frogboy made ? It increases the size of most sectors. Might help out a little: https://www.galciv4.com/mods/manager/download/64

 

 

Yes. I use it yet it still has a lot of tiny sectors. 

 

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198095002676/screenshot/2367293230815938395/

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