Never buying another product from you

JanOscar

Join Date 12/2002

+1285

That is because it's is a new version Stardock could have named Start 12, but that would cause a lot more confusion for the majority of customers. The only valid argument here is that you don't agree to the name of Start 11 v2.

You could have given owners of Start11 v1.x a free upgrade - for supporting your business.
Or at the very least a heavy discount.

There is already a discount for owners of Start 11 v.1, and even the full price is more than reasonable that justfies all the cost and work by the devs behind the development of the new version that has lots of new options and improvements. This is not a forced upgrade and your version of Start 11 will continue to work.

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DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002

+4566

demands to me to pay for the same product once again.

It is emphatically not the same product:

"Introducing Start11 v2, the industry’s most advanced Start menu, is taking a giant leap forward today. With more than two dozen new features and even more quality-of-life updates, this is the biggest update to any Start product in history.

With this release, we have 3 brand-new Start menu designs, tabs for the Start menu, new functionality for the taskbar, backup and restore options and dozens of enhancements that let you customize menus to your exact specifications to make Windows more personal and productive."

That alone more than justifies the the $5.99 pricetag. You want "a steep discount" on that?! You must be joking. A Starbuck's coffee costs more than that.

You could have tried it free for 30 days, btw.

https://www.stardock.com/blog/523496/introducing-start11-v2

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I disagree about any amount of greed linked to version 2's release.

I have had start 11 running on my Windows 11 device ever since start 11 version 1 released its first beta. I feel pretty confident saying that of all stardocks software ever released that start 11 version one had by far the longest window of active development and active changes. Start 11 really has grown a lot and a lot of resources were spent on it. This is crazy because start 11 is also their cheapest software. Even version 2 is reasonably priced. I spent 4.25 on an upgrade and I find it hard to complain about that. I believe multi devices will be getting a discounted price in the future as well.

As far as whether this release should be named start 12 is a hard call. Windows 12 is still being heavily guarded by Microsoft, probably until after the holidays. We have no idea what Microsoft will do with this OS. I would really love to see start 11 version 2 seamless port to Windows 12 and truly hope that happens. But until Microsoft releases Windows 12 into beta we don't know what will happen. If think there needs to be a high degree of certainty that Start 11 version 2 will port before it can be named start 12 and maybe a name change can be made when that happens.

It is true that start 11 version 2 is just as big as start 12 would have been. The changes are huge.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1882

I remember back in 1973 in a hotel room in Paris playing Poker with a bunch of fellow Architecture students all on the same OS trip...drinking duty free Johnny Walker and worrying about the cost of the coke.....and I argued that someone owed me 5 Centimes that he hadn't paid in one hand.....

....then I woke up that 1 Centime was 1/10th of a Cent back than ...so I was worrying about a half a cent.

Stardock's 'Start" series of programs are not expensive and never have been.

They have always been subject to a new purchase at each 'full release', and nothing has changed this time except the naming protocol.

V2 is exactly that, it is not a point release of Start 11.

There is good logic in not calling V2 'Start 12' as Windows 12 is yet to release and the naming protocol needs to make sense with the OS releases.

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IMO this is a 2 sided debate of which i kinda get both sides but..... again imo, this all comes down to the name of the product. On one hand we debate stardock for doggy sales practice but on the other hand if Start 11 V2 was actually named Start12 we'd ALL be jumping for joy and all quotes we be how freaking great this update is....... Swings and Rounds abouts but in all fairness this is a cheap ride. $6

Enjoy V2 cause it has a "this is kickass" stamp on it!

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I can see both sides here too, mainly because its not very clear on their product page when you need to pay for a new version. Also consider some products are sold as "lifetime" and some as "Subscription".

With Start11 being Lifetime, and even saying so in the Start11 v2 upgrade FAQ thread. "Lifetime" would seem to imply that as long as Start 11 is still an active program, one should get updates free. And I can see why some might be caught off guard, and upset.

BUT They do have this on their web site -> https://support.stardock.com/space/SHC/1330774031/Maintenance+and+Support+Policy#New-Version-Product-Releases

New version product releases will be designated by an increase in the top level release version number. For example, when product version 2.xx has a version upgrade the new version number would be 3.xx. New version product releases must be purchased. Discounted upgrade pricing may be available to owners of previous version levels.

That statement (and the previous section on that same page) covers this exact situation. Start 11 is going from v1.x to v2.x, so therefore requires one to purchase the new version.

I do wish they stated this more clearly on the product page for Start 11, as I saw no mentioned of it there, during check out, or on the invoice I received.

All of that that being said, the current "preview" pricing at $1 off for NEW purchases, is very reasonable. And I just looked at the upgrade pricing, its even better. While not a free upgrade, the upgrade pricing is well worth it.

Now maybe I feel this way because I've been using Start11 since I purchased it in September 2022, so I am definitely getting my monies worth, and this upgrade fee is not going to break the bank. Maybe I'd feel differently if I was only using it for 2 or 3 months? I'm not sure. Again, the upgrade price is very attractive, and the initial purchase price wasn't outrageous either, considering how much more usable it makes Win 11 for me.

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I literally bought Start11 in September, 2023 !... so for me, it is sort of annoying to see a V2 that I have to pay for so soon after my initial purchase and I was disappointed to see that I was not actually going to have those updates included as part of my first year of service...

It is like saying you get all future v1.x free... and then not actually getting any real updates and having to pay more to switch to a new version.

However, having been in software development in the past, there is not an "easy fix" for this issue from a seller's perspective. The seller does need to make an income. Selling updates is one way to do that without the subscription model... and many people don't like a subscription model.

I think the "fair" thing to do would be to offer a free upgrade to anyone who purchased within some "time period"... The "typical" is within 1 year of purchase. But, 6 months could also be considered fair.

I personally really appreciate Stardock's reasonable pricing for their products, but I am not a fan of how soon after my purchase that a new version with more features was released that I have to pay more for, if I want them.

To improve customer satisfaction, please consider making the cost of the "upgrade" path as well as the "time deadlines" more clear in the sales literature for the future.

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If i were you i'd pop sales an email stating your current situation as im sure they'll look at this and provide you with a V2 key Free seing as you only just purchased V1. Having this conversation out in the open is probably something stardock dont want and like you said they are running a business.

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DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002

+4566

Quoting Macktek,

reply 7

I literally bought Start11 in September, 2023 !... so for me, it is sort of annoying to see a V2 that I have to pay for so soon after my initial purchase and I was disappointed to see that I was not actually going to have those updates included as part of my first year of service...

It is like saying you get all future v1.x free... and then not actually getting any real updates and having to pay more to switch to a new version.

However, having been in software development in the past, there is not an "easy fix" for this issue from a seller's perspective. The seller does need to make an income. Selling updates is one way to do that without the subscription model... and many people don't like a subscription model.

I think the "fair" thing to do would be to offer a free upgrade to anyone who purchased within some "time period"... The "typical" is within 1 year of purchase. But, 6 months could also be considered fair.

I personally really appreciate Stardock's reasonable pricing for their products, but I am not a fan of how soon after my purchase that a new version with more features was released that I have to pay more for, if I want them.

To improve customer satisfaction, please consider making the cost of the "upgrade" path as well as the "time deadlines" more clear in the sales literature for the future.

Per Brad Sams, emails about that very situation have gone out. If you haven't received it, check your email's spam folder.

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Agreed.

It's awful that you are charging us for 2.0. Also someone who not long ago brought this.

We buy in to the software literally to support development, yet you charge again for a new version.

I also never received any discount nor anything in my spam.

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Quoting obbzey,

reply 10

Agreed.

It's awful that you are charging us for 2.0. Also someone who not long ago brought this.

We buy in to the software literally to support development, yet you charge again for a new version.

I also never received any discount nor anything in my spam.

Hello,
Sorry to hear you are having issues. When did you purchase Start11 v1? October 2023?

Thank you.
Basj,
Stardock Community Assistant.

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I bought Start11 in ~ 9-16-2023... But, I bought it thru a different email. ( I could send a msg from that email if that helps? But where to send it?)

Re: V2, The biggest feature I would like to see is the ability to scroll the taskbar up so I can have multiple rows, and apparently that is "broken" if I want "hide" taskbar enabled. It would be good if V2 fixes that. If not... oh well.

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Quoting Macktek,

reply 12

I bought Start11 in ~ 9-16-2023... But, I bought it thru a different email. ( I could send a msg from that email if that helps? But where to send it?)

Hello,
Please raise support ticket using the link below, use the "Ask a Question" option. Include all information details. Remember to record down the ticket number for future reference if needed. Do not raise multiple ticket, that will make your ticket back to the end of the line. Send once and wait. Ticket will be answer by the order they send in.

https://stardock.atlassian.net/servicedesk/customer/portal/4/group/13

Thanks
Basj,
Stardock Community Assistant

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Quoting Macktek,

reply 12

I bought Start11 in ~ 9-16-2023... But, I bought it thru a different email. ( I could send a msg from that email if that helps? But where to send it?)

Re: V2, The biggest feature I would like to see is the ability to scroll the taskbar up so I can have multiple rows, and apparently that is "broken" if I want "hide" taskbar enabled. It would be good if V2 fixes that. If not... oh well.

Start11 v2 adds in its own autohide function for when enhanced taskbar is enabled now which you can use instead of the OS one. This supports multiple rows and taskbars at the top of the screen.

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I also purchased a "lifetime" license for Start11 in September of 2023, and less than two months later Start 11 v2 was released, and I'm extremely disappointed that I'm being asked to pay again for an upgrade of the same software I just purchased. I know the amount of the upgrade is very small, but the principle is not. I realize that v2 may have many updates that took a considerable amount of development time, but when I purchase a "lifetime" license, I expect that to be honored. Contrary to what was said above, Start 11 v2 is the same product as the original Start 11, albeit with several added features; it replaces the poor Windows 11 "Start" menu with a much better and more flexible one. Thank you for this product, by the way (it is excellent), but I don't plan on paying for an update for software I just purchased, much less one with a "lifetime" license.

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DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002

+4566

Quoting puffpastry,

reply 15

I also purchased a "lifetime" license for Start11 in September of 2023, and less than two months later Start 11 v2 was released, and I'm extremely disappointed that I'm being asked to pay again for an upgrade of the same software I just purchased. I know the amount of the upgrade is very small, but the principle is not. I realize that v2 may have many updates that took a considerable amount of development time, but when I purchase a "lifetime" license, I expect that to be honored. Contrary to what was said above, Start 11 v2 is the same product as the original Start 11, albeit with several added features; it replaces the poor Windows 11 "Start" menu with a much better and more flexible one. Thank you for this product, by the way (it is excellent), but I don't plan on paying for an update for software I just purchased, much less one with a "lifetime" license.

It is not the same product as S11v1. Period. It has more than enough new features to justify the S11v2 as a major version change. The fact that they're both called Start11 refers to the OS it's meant to customize.

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Directly from the Stardock EULA, to which you agreed when you installed the software. From Section 4. b. "... all future generations of the Software and all whole number versions of the Software (i.e., version 5.0, version 6.0, etc.) developed and published from time to time in the future (a.) are not deemed to be Updates, and (b.) are not considered licensed Software to you, and, therefore, you will be required to purchase a new license or license subscription as a condition of upgrading the Software to any such new generation or version."

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Quoting puffpastry,

reply 15

I also purchased a "lifetime" license for Start11 in September of 2023, and less than two months later Start 11 v2 was released, and I'm extremely disappointed that I'm being asked to pay again for an upgrade of the same software I just purchased. I know the amount of the upgrade is very small, but the principle is not. I realize that v2 may have many updates that took a considerable amount of development time, but when I purchase a "lifetime" license, I expect that to be honored. Contrary to what was said above, Start 11 v2 is the same product as the original Start 11, albeit with several added features; it replaces the poor Windows 11 "Start" menu with a much better and more flexible one. Thank you for this product, by the way (it is excellent), but I don't plan on paying for an update for software I just purchased, much less one with a "lifetime" license.

I think the confusion here may be with the wording.

The lifetime does not mean (and never has) that you get all versions forever, it means your copy will continue to run without additional payment, I.e. it is not a subscription.

Some of the Stardock products are offered as subscription which will expire after 12 months unless renewed. This is like say Adobe Photoshop or Microsoft Office 365. In the case of office there is also Office 2016 which doesn't have all the new features or updates but it will continue to work without additional payments being required.

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First, I want to thank Stardock, for doing the right thing! I really appreciate the level of support you guys are providing.

I am especially super happy that Start11 V2 solves my issue with the taskbar no resizing ... for that fix alone, I think it is worth the upgrade price!

As a thank you... I went ahead an upgraded to V2. (I do realize that you provided a customer support ticket, but I also want to show my support for Stardock and the discounted upgrade price is well worth the added feature.) Thank you to the mods as well.

Quoting basj,

reply 13

Quoting Macktek,

reply 12

I bought Start11 in ~ 9-16-2023... But, I bought it thru a different email. ( I could send a msg from that email if that helps? But where to send it?)

Hello,
Please raise support ticket using the link below, use the "Ask a Question" option. Include all information details. Remember to record down the ticket number for future reference if needed. Do not raise multiple ticket, that will make your ticket back to the end of the line. Send once and wait. Ticket will be answer by the order they send in.

https://stardock.atlassian.net/servicedesk/customer/portal/4/group/13

Thanks
Basj,
Stardock Community Assistant

Quoting Neil Banfield,

reply 14

Quoting Macktek,

reply 12

...
Re: V2, The biggest feature I would like to see is the ability to scroll the taskbar up so I can have multiple rows, and apparently that is "broken" if I want "hide" taskbar enabled. It would be good if V2 fixes that. If not... oh well.

Start11 v2 adds in its own autohide function for when enhanced taskbar is enabled now which you can use instead of the OS one. This supports multiple rows and taskbars at the top of the screen.

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Definitely the last product I buy from Stardock. I made the mistake of letting it slip once before with Groupy V2. Maybe it is justified. I'm not going to say they're inherently wrong for their model. You can make all the arguments you like justifying it. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. But it's not a model I'm going to support.

"Lifetime license"

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Quoting klementineQt,

reply 20

Definitely the last product I buy from Stardock. I made the mistake of letting it slip once before with Groupy V2. Maybe it is justified. I'm not going to say they're inherently wrong for their model. You can make all the arguments you like justifying it. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. But it's not a model I'm going to support.

"Lifetime license"

Yes, lifetime vs subscription model. Your software continues to work.

This is how Stardock have sold software since the 90s. In fact thats how Microsoft sold software until the subscription model (Office 365) came. Likewise Adobe before subscription model came. Major versions are upgrades.

Just to be very clear here, Stardock have to the best of my knowledge never sold software with free upgrades to all/any future major new versions. I am afraid the cost would be considerably higher.

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And around and around it goes!

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Never buying another product from you

Borderline scammers