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Kristopher Schmidt
Kristopher Schmidt
Join Date 03/2006
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structure upgrade speedbumps

March 28, 2006 9:48:38 AM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I noticed in the beta that upgrading from adv trade centers to banking centers seems to take a ridiculously large time. It seems more worthwhile to build multiple trade centers, but once you have researched banking centers I can't figure out how to go back and build trade centers. Does that mean I have to hold off researching banking centers on purpose, just so I can build a cheap (non 40-turn) economic bonus for my planets? It's almost like there are a few techs that I fear to get because they will completely stall my ability to build on empty planet spaces.
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Kristopher Schmidt
CTB123
Join Date 03/2003
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Reply #1 March 28, 2006 10:02:11 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Once the tech is researched to build an upgrade, you can only build the new strutcture. You can't go back and build a lesser structure.

If you have your economy up and running, it is usually not a big deal to just buy new structures you need. And if your economy is really cooking along, you don't need every structure on every planet anyway.

I know folks have asked for the ability to build an older structure, but I think it works fine now. If it were changed, there could be issues with play balance and of course the AI would have to be programmed to make decisions on what to build as well.

Tony
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Kristopher Schmidt
Draknost
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #2 March 28, 2006 10:22:27 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
The only reason it should take 40 turns to build an upgrade to a structure type is if you're letting your research on that path outpace your research on factories. Factories that are on par with the 'level' of the upgrade you're wanting to build typically don't take long to build them.
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Kristopher Schmidt
Archmoo
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #3 March 28, 2006 10:28:36 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I dunno I think it's a bit of a problem. Quite often if you invade a technologically underdeveloped world you can end up with two choices: buy a super advanced factory for like 5000 BC, or wait 200 turns for it to upgrade one. With neither the ability to 'ship' factories from other worlds, nor buy a lower level factory and 'bootstrap' you're left with a planet that is, in effect, completely useless.

The problem is doubled if you use mass drivers/tidal disruption/etc. Which makes those techonologies only useful if you want to annihilate another race rather than simply stealing their planets.
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Kristopher Schmidt
SingleMalt
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #4 March 28, 2006 10:40:03 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums



Archmoo

My thoughts exactly.
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Kristopher Schmidt
Supreme Shogun
Join Date 11/2005
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Reply #5 March 28, 2006 10:41:41 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
No it doesn't work fine now. Mid to Late conquests and you have to rebuild factories/etc to get the infrastructure back on line (cause we knocked some of their buildings down in the process). It'd be WAY easier to build a basic factory or just 'factory' and let them upgrade up (same with markets/labs too) than trying to build a manufacturing center/industrial sector when you got literally no (or very small) amount of base production to build stuff with to begin with.

The ability to switch on/off older buildings to build them would be a great addition. Have the player spend a quick couple mins laying out design of newly conquer world and the governor will take care of rest (after the base structures are built - governor will start auto-upgrading ) Player gets a semi-functioning planet and little micromanage.
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Kristopher Schmidt
Tetrasodium
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #6 March 28, 2006 10:43:33 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
The only reason it should take 40 turns to build an upgrade to a structure type is if you're letting your research on that path outpace your research on factories. Factories that are on par with the 'level' of the upgrade you're wanting to build typically don't take long to build them.


Archmoo is right, I frequently have to put off researching better factories/labs for a good long while because I'm still colonizing planets or am about to crush and take over several AI planets. Plus taking over an amazing high PQ planet and seeing it's going to take some ungodly amount of cash to rushbuy or several years worth of gametime to even get ti to where it can start resonably building it's infrastructure sucks . A lot of the problems would be fixed if you could click a box and have the option to build older versions of things you currently have (i.e. factory instead of industrial sector).
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Kristopher Schmidt
HuggyMonster
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #7 March 28, 2006 11:00:53 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
tell you what would be good way to work the construction (in my opinion)..


basically when you choose what to build it builds the most basic form of that building, then auto upgrades to next phase, and then auto upgrades to phase after that and so on and so on till you have the best availble, this way you gain partial benfit sooner, and befit increase as it continues to build

(kinda like opening up part of a store when rest is still being built etc)
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Kristopher Schmidt
TriPp
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #8 March 28, 2006 11:23:22 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Why not just have the ability to downgrade a tile ? Simple and would work easily with the UI.
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Kristopher Schmidt
CTB123
Join Date 03/2003
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Reply #9 March 28, 2006 11:37:30 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Why not just have the ability to downgrade a tile ? Simple and would work easily with the UI.


The AI still has to be able to deal with making decisions like that.

I think its all about making choices. Do I upgrade and obsolete, therefore making future structures more expenseive?

Tony
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Kristopher Schmidt
Dewwar
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #10 March 28, 2006 12:31:31 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Not that I disagree with what you're asking for, but here's another suggestion as well. Don't use tactics that destroy buildings on a computer planet you plan on using. I'll gladly send 5 billion soldiers to their death rather than 2 billion if it means I don't have to use tidal disruption.

-Dewar
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Kristopher Schmidt
BinnisterGC2
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #11 March 28, 2006 12:47:17 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
The problem is doubled if you use mass drivers/tidal disruption/etc. Which makes those techonologies only useful if you want to annihilate another race rather than simply stealing their planets.


Then do what I do.

Split up your invaders , having only 500k or 1000k soldiers attack at a time, but have their attack advantage boosted up by the Mass Driver option. You will lose the invasion, but since the damage to the planet only takes effect *if you win*, you've significantly knocked down the defenders number's without damaging any of the infrastructure. Then, you can follow up the attack with another more conventional (or, at least, less damaging) attack.
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Kristopher Schmidt
CTB123
Join Date 03/2003
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Reply #12 March 28, 2006 1:25:09 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Not that I disagree with what you're asking for, but here's another suggestion as well. Don't use tactics that destroy buildings on a computer planet you plan on using. I'll gladly send 5 billion soldiers to their death rather than 2 billion if it means I don't have to use tidal disruption.


Exactly, another strategic choice to make. Do I make an invasion easier and destroy some structures, or do I send in extra troops, research Troop buffing techs and so on?

Don't get me wrong, if the developers want to implement what you guys are asking for and can make it work, I'm fine with it. But the game works as it is now, if you just work within the game's design, not against it.

Tony
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Kristopher Schmidt
Alexender000
Join Date 09/2005
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Reply #13 March 28, 2006 2:03:35 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
The thing is that from an Invasion point of view the strategy of destroy vs. dont' destroy is there but when I use cultural conquest or even standart invasion principle (traditional warfare), I'm often left with a planet that will require (late game) something like 30000-50000 bc before it's producing enough social production to transform/upgrade itself. Now I guess that I'm non so bad a player but late-game, with my economy running @ 100% ahd my approval @ 80%, I produce a surplus of 2000 to 5000 bc a week now I guess 10weeks to make a planet usable is non so bad except that I end up with 10s of planet that need to be upgraded/transformed especially if you go with the no trading option. The bill goes up way way fast if you culturally convert about 1 planet/week.

From a logistic point of view, It dosn't make sense to be able to build industrial sector from scratch since the infractruture needed for that kind of construction are simply non-existant to begin with. If the guys @ stardock want a real game exemple of the strate by strate upgrade (with some variation from what we got here) go see the game Star Trek The Next Generation: Birth of the Federation.

Alexender
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Kristopher Schmidt
Haasen
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #14 March 28, 2006 2:04:26 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Then do what I do.

Split up your invaders , having only 500k or 1000k soldiers attack at a time, but have their attack advantage boosted up by the Mass Driver option. You will lose the invasion, but since the damage to the planet only takes effect *if you win*, you've significantly knocked down the defenders number's without damaging any of the infrastructure. Then, you can follow up the attack with another more conventional (or, at least, less damaging) attack.


That's sneaky and I like it! Didn't realize it worked that way. Definately going to try that next time.
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