MrCapitalG

Join Date 03/2006

Now I'm Upset

Well I originally complained and vented my frustration in another thread, https://forums.elementalgame.com/394853 I wasn't happy with the game upon release, it was a broken mess and most definitely unfinished. Even a few patches after the fact, it's still a broken unfinished game. I was met with upset folks who suggested I return the product for a refund and I listened, I tried that, but as it turns out, I'm not allowed to return the product because I had pre-purchased it over 90 days ago, in fact a full year ago, I did so to support the company and folks behind it, but now, due to frustration and additional frustration due to not getting a refund I'm at a loss.

I can't complain, as Brad and company have made it very evident that that is not tolerated and not allowed and my $50 purchase doesn't give me the right to complain. I'm not a Brad stalker, I never made a death thread on the guy or the folks who made this game that isn't right and is pretty downright sick in my opinion. I just vented a little and asked for a refund and I'm met with resistance at every turn. I even received a PM from a guy in the exact same situation, he bought the game over 90 days ago and simply isn't happy with the product, it does not work and is not a finished game. That's at least two burned and bitter customers and I think we'd both be fine if we were able to get a simple refund.

The gamers bill of rights doesn't seem to matter when you pre-order a game over 90 days old I guess. At this point, I'm apparently the unhappy owner of a game that won't be finished for what I can only guess is another year or so, or whenever Brad says its done, but I paid for a game to be done a couple weeks ago and it's not. I'm not trying to disrupt the community or be a negative burden on it, I simply want a refund.

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greywar

Well i think it would be not a good way if everyone is able to return games because they just don't like it. I mean if you start this there are open doors to give games back 2 weeks after release just played through.

Sure they need to patch it! But if they do and fix all major issues refund isn't an option.

I just remember spore which i threw out of the window 1 day after release but nobody wants to refund me.

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Interesting. In my opinion, you have every right to be upset about the refund issue. I wonder if this is something that has simply been overlooked.

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This should be addressed. You should be allowed to get a refund and penalizing those who supported the beta process is a bad idea.

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Quoting ,

quoting post

I'm not trying to disrupt the community or be a negative burden on it, I simply want a refund.

Then why not contact the people who can give you one instead of bothering us?

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I'm with you, OP.

I preordered a day before release, and got my refund. You should get a refund, but it isn't your right to get one, since you agreed to the terms of the sale when you preordered the game.

Still, considering the release problems and bugs, I think a refund is justified even for those that got it 90 days ago.

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Quoting calmon,

reply 2

Sure they need to patch it! But if they do and fix all major issues refund isn't an option.

I can't make sense of this sentence. It seems to be saying that you have to assume that they will fix all the issues and therefore you are not entitled to a refund. Please enlighten me if not.

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The refund process is bugged and several reviews have come out stating that it is unfinished and broken...

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Do they let you return music or videos once you open them? You can't at Best Buy, you can't at Wal Mart.

If I buy the Moody Blues Box set for $100 and I get home and I simply don't like the songs can I return the music?

If the CDs were scratched and unplayable sure but not just because you don't like it.

Sure there are some issues with the game but I'm sure everyone has bought something they didn't like, whether that was a DVD or a Music CD or a console game.

My advice, don't buy games the moment they are released. Wait for a few months to read the reviews AFTER the game is released not the hype BEFORE it's released.

I should ask for my money back from the theatre after watching Titanic because I didn't like the graphics when the ship was sinking. It felt unfinished to me.

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It was in the pre-order info that you could not get a refund and that you would be charged right away. This was due to being able to test the game. They didn't want people to just play the Alpha/Beta and then ask for their money back. It was a risk that you, and I, willingly took.

Try and think of the game as still being in the Beta phase. They are still working on it and will for at lest a year.

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Quoting cordell9,

reply 9

Do they let you return music or videos once you open them? You can't at Best Buy, you can't at Wal Mart.

If it were anyone other than Stardock, I would agree with you. But their own rules state that games have a right to demand a refund if the product isn't working.

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Quoting nobalkain,

reply 10

I wasn't part of the beta, so correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the beta testers told that they weren't playing the final/release build? Seems like the odds were really skewed to the house in that gamble...

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Try and think of the game as still being in the Beta phase. They are still working on it and will for at lest a year.

This is *exactly* why he deserves a refund.

Signing up for the Beta doesn't mean he shouldn't be afforded the same rights as a new customer who bought on launch day. Frankly, he should be treated even better.

Do it any other way is counter productive and well... retarded. Unless you are trying to discourage early support for games?

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This situation somewhat lays bare the emptiness of the gamers bill of rights - ie, they are progressive as long as things are going well, but faced with a very difficult situation they are battening down the hatches. Its an old old story.

Inevitable, but an interesting reminder that there is nothing too special about this company; sure, they are a decent studio trying to make fun games (which is great), but they are also a business, not a charity, and are trying to save their finances and their jobs.

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I asked for my money back in BETA 4 (Note* I preordered a year ago). I knew in BETA 4 (And to be honest before) it was no where near finished and heading for disaster. And yes SD HAVE penalised those who showed some form of commitment & faith in them.

'No Refunds for Pre-orders' was the straight answer, 'hard luck' the reality.

So much for the Developers who listen, who care!

Nope, thats me done with SD.

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It amazes me how many people are willing to post here to say that people aren't entitled to refunds, when the CEO himself has directly told us that we are, and how to apply for one.

I'm in the same boat as many, waiting for a response to my refund request (I'm not a pre-order though). Once I get it, you'll not hear from me again.

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I don't think it's up to any of us to try and tell people under what conditions they should feel entitled to a refund. But at the same time, the GBOR wording on a refund is pretty specific to technical issues ("incompatible" and "does not function at a reasonable level of performance"). Under this, not liking it does not entitle you to a 100% refund. I know they have offered 75% refunds for "I don't like it" requests, so perhaps if that is your only issue then you should ask for the 75% one. If it's a technical issue, perhaps you should describe it in detail along with listing the support tickets that failed to resolve it. Obviously this is the "default" ruleset as it were, and if Frogboy promised 100% refunds for everyone for not liking it that would be a different story. If that is the case, this morning is the first time Sales dept is back from the holiday weekend, and if Frog's post was over the weekend, it's fairly possible the new refund rules haven't been communicated effectively yet.

Also keep in mind that after a certain period of time, it is a hassle to issue a refund and they get charged for it by the CC companies and the like. So, yes, if you preordered during the beta and want to return it because you just don't like it, you may not get it regardless of how entitled to one you feel.

Personally, I think it's fairly reasonable to deny beta refunds on the "I don't like it" principle. All of us who beta tested put up our money up-front for an unfinished product and we had little idea of how it would ultimately end up. Sure we had some "We want the game to have this and this" kind of journals, but everyone should know how volatile game development is and it's very common for features to get cut as development realism sets in.

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Quoting Arkenor,

reply 16

I'm in the same boat as many, waiting for a response to my refund request (I'm not a pre-order though). Once I get it, you'll not hear from me again.

Thats the point, those who have are being penalised for just that..Pre-Ordering!

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Well as beta testers we were told that it could last until next Feb. or longer. So to be upset that it was released to other people is empathetic, you should have know the game could take longer. To demand your money back for something you agreed not to get your money back on if you entered the beta, that is where the Gamer's Bill of Rights does not protect you.

Nor should it.

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You take a gamble by pre-ordering any video game, Elemental is no different. The fact that it did not turn out the way you wanted is no one's problem but your own. Next time don't pre-order unless you can take the loss. You should be old enough to understand that this is applies to anything you buy.

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Sorry but you have no right to get a refund if you preordered the game. They may offer you one if they want but it would be out of kindness not because it is your right. The game is not broken and unfinished, you just don't like it the way it is, which is fine but that does not entitle you to a refund. You might be able to get the 75% refund for not liking the game though, pursue that.

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I'll make the distinction between a pre-order and a beta test. If people pre-ordered after the Beta 4 cut-off, they weren't in the beta and the pre-order should be treated no differently than walking into the store on release day and buying it. But for beta testing, the expectation always was that pay for the unfinished product at that time, and in exchange you would be able to contribute to development. I don't believe not liking the final result after beta participation entitles anyone to a full refund.

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Quoting Anomander,

reply 18

Quoting Arkenor,
reply 16
I'm in the same boat as many, waiting for a response to my refund request (I'm not a pre-order though). Once I get it, you'll not hear from me again.

Thats the point, those who have are being penalised for just that..Pre-Ordering!

But you agreed to it when you bought it.....I'm confused why you think you are being ripped off?

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Quoting BlackRainZ,

reply 21

It would appear that if you pre-ordered far back enough to participate in the first betas, then you can't get a refund of any kind, for any sort of problem. The game could even be completely non-functional for a year and Stardock would have no obligation to do anything about it.

Maybe that isn't really the case, but that's what the available information suggests.

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I just want my money back, that's it. I don't care what the policy says (who reads those, honestly? That's the joke of the legal world and companies know it and screw the consumer if they wanna be dicks about something, doesn't make it right and just burns bridges to loyal paying customers), this game was released unfinished and is a debacle the CEO has admitted that much, given the circumstances, I don't think anyone should be refused a refund.

It's not that I hate Elemental or that I hate Stardock, this is principle, it's my money and I'm tired of the frustration and I don't like being saddled with it for another 6-12 months of patches and releases, just because I pre-ordered. I'm with the consensus, the game is broken but they will fix it in time, I just don't wanna wait it out, I want a simple refund.

At this point if I don't get a refund I'll just not pre-order anything from Stardock nor partake in any of their games and I'm very reluctant to use Impulse, give me a reason for sticking around because at this point I'm being met with such heavy resistance that I'm burned with repeatedly.

I'm trying to listen and take the the advice of the community, I'm unhappy, request a refund, I do that, I'm not allowed. How do I vote with my dollars unless I stop using Impulse and buying Stardock stuff.

I never stated I have a right, I'm imploring for a refund given the state of this deplorable release and game. It's one thing to say Halo is unfinished and it's another to say Elemental is unfinished. Elemental IS unfinished, review upon review has stated this and I didn't even need a review to see this to begin with, but it sure backs up my and other people's points. Some of you folks who say I don't deserve a refund are the very folks who suggested I go get a refund, hilarious.

(For all I read about consumer rights, day in and day out in professional publications, I don't get the sense that many folks here seem to care about consumer rights when they are happy with their purchase, it's pandering at best and blind-loyalty at worse, to each their own, but don't belittle me or anyone for doing EXACTLY what this community advised (smartly) me and others in doing, requesting a refund.)

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I guess I am what you would call somebody who made the right decision. I didn't pre-order or do beta, and I was going to wait for the 9.2 review on Gamespot before I ordered. I did the same thing with Red Alert 3 and CnC4, and guess what: also the right decision.

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