I agree that when you concentrate on the diplomatic aspect of the game, the exploits are very powerful.

As such, I began playing games with tech-trading and tech-stealing turned off. This makes the game immensely more difficult for those of us who got good at trading. Not only does it require you to spend a great deal of your resources on technology research, it further prevents several easy ways of getting others to fight, appeasing early threats, and making money. The necessity to formulate new strategies in several areas of the game becomes paramount when the massive leverage allowed with tech trading/stealing is removed from the game.

Not to mention the great color added to the game due to Thalans having only Thalan techs and bldgs, Drengin only Drengin Techs and bldgs, etc.

Indeed.  

The difficulty in getting this in the game is probably what would constitute helping an enemy of an enemy. That is to say, what would cause the "- Helped their enemies" to enter into the report on that races relations screen? Perhaps when a war between the Drengin and the Altarians for example breaks out, the Altarians could offer a + to their relations if we did not communicate with the Drengins at all for that time. Still adding a "-" would be difficult for most players to accept without being vocally upset about it.

Yes but who's to say when those races gave you their ships? How does the Thalan Empire know that you got them during the war against them? I know that its easy to force the AI to know this, I am talking more about trying to accurately create the fantasy experience of a game like this. The Thalans (if they were not an AI with access to all events during the game) would not necessarily know when those ships were given to you. Also, if two other races are already giving you arms in the war against the Thalans, then declaring war on the helping nations could be a bad idea for the Thalans. Fighting a three-front war is generally unwise. (see Napolean and Hitler for how bad a two-front war was) So while the Thalans could be very upset, they most likely would just have to deal with it.

All that being said, I love any expansion to the diplomacy of the game. By this I mean more options and tougher exploitation of this area of the game. A savy human player can play these races like puppets throughout the game even on the higher difficulties. If the devs could figure out a way to make all this work - no easy task - then I would applaud them.

Sounds good in theory, but wonder if this would really work in practice? Just imagine if that happened in the 'real world' right now, with the various arm dealers of the world supplying various other (sometimes slightly/highly dubious) countries or dictatorships with arms! Half the world would be constantly at war.

Actually, in saying that, I guess we already are.

Example: Oz purchases aircraft from USA, and Indonesia is currently upgrading their airforce with Russian fighters. If East Timor horrifically flash-pointed and Oz/Indonesia were suddenly engaged, that would mean Oz would declare war on Russia, and Indonesia on USA? Hypothetical to the extreme I know, but trying to think of a reason why not included as a game mechanic. Where do you draw the line between purchase or active logistic foreign supply of equipment in a war scenario?

But, yah, if it helps out with the gameplay and closing out an exploitation, then possibly worthwhile considering.

I dunno. Seems to be a few entities out there who appear quite keen on firing off a few of those suckers regardless of the over-arching consequences, if they could manage to get their hands on them!



DoW'd? What's that stand for? (Doesn't sound like a bunch of flowers and chocolates for some reason).



Yup, agree completely. Has happened historically where another country throws their lot in and creates an alliance, boots and all. Or the faction-at-war includes your name on the hit-list because of your dealings and support. There's also other examples of countries supplying the hardware, but not getting involved or dragged in to the thick of it at all. There's a multitude differing factors which affect this (size, distance, military capacity, critical and perceived threat/s, multiple political relations, other trade deals and arrangements, remote handling, double crossing, historic relations, etc.) and I'm just wondering how you define those triggers and code into the game, without creating a mammoth amount of work and tweaking for the developers; yet keeping it balanced for the players so it's not too simple to manipulate, and at the same time not evolve into a complete vortex of negotiations and 'behind the scene AI' tactics and dealings that overwhelm the player?

I reckon you'd have to go through a large amount of parameters, refinement and testing before achieving a workable, challenging yet entertaining system along this line for the game, on top of all the other parameters already included!



Certainly. I'm guessing there's already some of this 'behind the scence' processing within the AI, but there's always room for improvement, as Stardock seems to readily attest and actively respond to. On the wish-list for GalCiv 3 perhaps?

Ockham's razor: Could work I guess. Keep it as simple as possible and let the mechanics introduce the complexity.

I'll tell you what just pushed my 'weighted random' over the edge, though!

First time I've had the pirate mega-event occur, and I sat back in mild astonishment as the pirates swiftly yet systematically wiped out all orbiting starships and moved onto the starbases. Not being the quickest with the old grey matter sometimes, it took me a few turns to realise:

'Geez, I wonder if these guys ... awwwwwwww no, not the FREIGHTERS! ARGH!!!'

Playing as the Korx, it was like waving a red flag at a bull in a china shop, with a truckload of firecrackers chucked in for good measure.

As a rabbit in a cartoon once said; "Of course, you realise, 'dis means war!"

This definitely happens in the real world. In WWII, the U.S. had a Lend Lease going with the U.K. and Russia. We were basically giving them equipment with the understanding they would pay us after the war. Hitler was fully aware it was going on and was PO'd but didn't want to go to war with the U.S. directly. Pearl Harbor and his alliance with Japan changed all that.
Recreating this type of situation in GalCiv would be nice. It gets difficult to judge as all that can be known at this time is "My enemy has some ships they did not build." You don't know if they were given to them or if they paid a pretty penny for them.