15 year old surgeon... » Forum Post by Schod

in the WESTERN world, not in Africa.
in Africa it has been a problem back for ages, why do you think such a huge portion of their people have it?

Because the lack the sexual education or the means for correct sexual protection, so in the end that is what you get.

It was not wide spread in Africa for ages, it wasnt a problem untill more and more sex started occuring for enjoyment then for reproduction.

and that is???

Your an egotist and your an American die hard patriot, should I go on?

this is folly, they wouldnt for more than one reason, not all of them have to do with money and international relations.

Folly?

I agree, it is folly that we are braking human and internation rights when we are one of the main propoments of them.

Hm... hypocracy anyone?

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first of all, what the hell are "international rights", I assure you, Europe shouldnt be a judge in... um... whatever those are

and if you define people listening to your phone calls as "breaking your human rights", well god damn, shame on us.

Your an egotist and your an American die hard patriot, should I go on?

yes I am, however I'm most certainly also privvy to current events, and I've never heard of this. courts as far back as I've seen still only carry jurisdiction where they are recognized, America does not recognize the power of European courts on American soil, hence they have no power here.
and before you pull the Iraqi court blah blah blah, 1) they recognized the jurisdiction of thier own court, 2) duh, we're an occupational force, hence we can force them to recognize the jurisdiction.

Because the lack the sexual education or the means for correct sexual protection, so in the end that is what you get.

so its THEIR fault that the first world forgot to tell them "woops, you have a super deadly super-plague spread by sex, you should be more careful" for almost a quarter century? nice, way to go xenophobe.

It was not wide spread in Africa for ages

yes, yes it has. how else, remind me, does a plague spread to 1/3 of the total population of a continent in under 30 years? it doesnt, you're talking an influenza type rate of expanse, and thats simply not possible with a fluid-transfer virus.

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and if you define people listening to your phone calls as "breaking your human rights", well god damn, shame on us.

Listening to phone calls is not the only thing the Patriot Act allowed, it gave anyone in the executive branch the power to with hold any person with out the rights of habeus corpus or fair trial and they could do so for an indefinite amount of time, and that is breaking human rights.

Not to mention the fact that we have several 'torture schools' and several 'torture prisons' all on government property with direct funds from the government.

yes I am, however I'm most certainly also privvy to current events, and I've never heard of this. courts as far back as I've seen still only carry jurisdiction where they are recognized, America does not recognize the power of European courts on American soil, hence they have no power here.
and before you pull the Iraqi court blah blah blah, 1) they recognized the jurisdiction of thier own court, 2) duh, we're an occupational force, hence we can force them to recognize the jurisdiction.

Yes, that is true.

However since Seirra Leone is part of the UN the International Criminal Court has jurisdiction there, not only that but the UN Security Council can declare any nation to accept jurisdiction, and if they do not force occupation by the UN. Further on the UN also has the power to remove the current court of the country and reinstate it with officials loyal to the UN.

so its THEIR fault that the first world forgot to tell them "woops, you have a super deadly super-plague spread by sex, you should be more careful" for almost a quarter century? nice, way to go xenophobe.

I was not blaming them, I was blaming their government, and I was blaming us for not discovering AIDS earlier untill it spread world wide.

And you are by far more xenophobic then I am.

yes, yes it has. how else, remind me, does a plague spread to 1/3 of the total population of a continent in under 30 years? it doesnt, you're talking an influenza type rate of expanse, and thats simply not possible with a fluid-transfer virus.

1/3? Where are you getting these figures? There are a billion people on that continent, maybe more, and your telling me over 300 million of them have AIDS. That is just stupidity.

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quote:

the national adult HIV prevalence rate has risen higher than was thought possible and now exceeds 20%. These countries are Botswana (24.1%), Lesotho (23.2%), Swaziland (33.4%) and Zimbabwe (20.1%).

those are merely the confirmed cases, actual cases are posited to be far higher.

I was not blaming them, I was blaming their government, and I was blaming us for not discovering AIDS earlier untill it spread world wide

so thats what you meant by this:

so in the end that is what you get.

huh, it sounded so much more ignorant when its worded this way

And you are by far more xenophobic then I am

heh, hardly.

However since Seirra Leone is part of the UN the International Criminal Court has jurisdiction there, not only that but the UN Security Council can declare any nation to accept jurisdiction, and if they do not force occupation by the UN. Further on the UN also has the power to remove the current court of the country and reinstate it with officials loyal to the UN.

and guess what, we dont recognize the UN's ability to do so because its massively immoral to hijack a country's legal system.
my depiction of the UN:

ugly, tiger, and toothless.

Not to mention the fact that we have several 'torture schools' and several 'torture prisons' all on government property with direct funds from the government.

yes, because that is a fully disclosed legal section of our government, not something (attempted to be) covered in thousands of veils of illegal darkness

you cannot judge a country by its worse elements, otherwise I would have more than enough dirt to bury any other country you could compare to, maybe excluding canada.

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heh, hardly.

Hardly, you have the attitude of the confident american who thinks that just because he has access to the internet it automatically makes him well informed.

When is the last time you took on a foreign idea or taste? Or even looked at something from a different point of view?

and guess what, we dont recognize the UN's ability to do so because its massively immoral to hijack a country's legal system.

We hijacked Iraq's legal system, and we didnt look at as immoral.

I am not sayig the UN would ever do this, it wouldnt be able to because we are on the Security Council, I just said it can.

yes, because that is a fully disclosed legal section of our government, not something (attempted to be) covered in thousands of veils of illegal darkness

Untill 2003 they were unknown, and Congress had to order the Pentagon to release the papers proving that they exist.

you cannot judge a country by its worse elements, otherwise I would have more than enough dirt to bury any other country you could compare to, maybe excluding canada.

When it claims to be perfect, yes I can. You guys have amazed the world before getting out of the worst cases of social inequality and disorder when things were worse then they are now. However, in the past 3 decades America has labeled itself impervious and traditional and has refused change and progress. Its obvious that the government and laws need to be updated and transformed to fit a different populace and a different time period. But as long as there is a coservative president I think this country will sink deeper and deeper down the social paradox it seems so eager to dive into, and once we are in I dont think we will be first in anything for a long while.

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Hardly, you have the attitude of the confident american who thinks that just because he has access to the internet it automatically makes him well informed.

internet is a shitty resource, actually doing some confident search on your own is whats important. the best resource out there, in all actuality, is well informed people.

and let me point out, you have the attitude of an overconfident american immigrant who thinks simply because I'm american born, I'm an ignorant buffoon, despite displaying sociopolitical knowledge on your level.

When is the last time you took on a foreign idea or taste? Or even looked at something from a different point of view?

all the time. but frankly I dont see how accepting a xenophobic attitude of "lets not help... because" is something I would want to do.

We hijacked Iraq's legal system, and we didnt look at as immoral

aha! I didnt say it wasnt immoral, now did I?
besides, there are a few differences, for instance we didnt dictate who rose to power in the courts (well, not extensively like saddam did)

I am not sayig the UN would ever do this, it wouldnt be able to because we are on the Security Council, I just said it can.

it can as a PR thing, exactly like a no-confidence vote, but it really would never be acted upon without military force.

Untill 2003 they were unknown, and Congress had to order the Pentagon to release the papers proving that they exist.

my point exactly, presidents dont go up on the voting bloc and say "I'm here to make highly unconstitutional prisons to detain foreign people with no evidence of any transgression" do they now?

When it claims to be perfect, yes I can

you're the only one I see claiming that it claims its perfect.
I said its one of the best out there, thats a long cry from perfection.

You guys have amazed the world before getting out of the worst cases of social inequality and disorder when things were worse then they are now

I wont deny that there isnt racism, or even a rather obvious social schism between cultures. These, however, are not government problems, they are social,in time unfounded racism will collect off in some distant midwestern state, and people will stop viewing non-militant races with fear. hell, perhaps they will even realize the difference between the very few militant muslims and the massive peaceful islamic culture

America has labeled itself impervious and traditional and has refused change and progress. Its obvious that the government and laws need to be updated and transformed to fit a different populace and a different time period

remind me again how social issues can be fixed by government intervention? such ideas only work where minorities are relatively small and can be easily suppressed, when they arent small enough you get the paris riots.

on the contrary, I dont like suppressing minorities using unsolicitated and derogatory government "affirmative action". let me put this to you simply, when you compare the times that government has gotten mixed up with race and done some good as compared with mixing with races and done bad, you would want there to be absolutely no mention of it anywhere in any legal document.

But as long as there is a coservative president I think this country will sink deeper and deeper down the social paradox it seems so eager to dive into

I find it sad when people require government as their social crutch.

I'm conservative not because I am pointlessly afraid of muslims, want to stop abortion or because I think we need to instill "classic family values". I have no interest in that nonsense, I'm conservative to counter Democrats who want to do nothing but suck up money and use it to create hundreds of useless institutions meant to artificially ducktape a society that they believe needs fixing. social order needs to be established through social chaos, it cannot be maintained through government.

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and let me point out, you have the attitude of an overconfident american immigrant who thinks simply because I'm american born, I'm an ignorant buffoon, despite displaying sociopolitical knowledge on your level.

I didnt say you were ignorant, I said you were xenophobic. I am quite sure you are aware of outside ideas and undestrand them, but the fact that you reject them without fully encompassing their point of view is quite buffonish, I guess. Though an ignoratn buffon is not how I would describe you, more of an arrogant buffon... maybe not a buffon at all, but that is beside that point.

it can as a PR thing, exactly like a no-confidence vote, but it really would never be acted upon without military force.

In my opinion if a messure like this ever approache the UNs Security Council then it would invariably lead to its disolvation. I am just saying that the UN does use these powers against other countries, just not the ones in power in the UN.

my point exactly, presidents dont go up on the voting bloc and say "I'm here to make highly unconstitutional prisons to detain foreign people with no evidence of any transgression" do they now?

In my any presidential candidate only truely speaks once every 4 years, and even then they say what other think will make them win and what is supported by their party and the special interest groups backing them.

I wont deny that there isnt racism, or even a rather obvious social schism between cultures. These, however, are not government problems, they are social,in time unfounded racism will collect off in some distant midwestern state, and people will stop viewing non-militant races with fear. hell, perhaps they will even realize the difference between the very few militant muslims and the massive peaceful islamic culture

I am not worried about the racism, that will fade as time passes, but the loss of power in the middle class is truely what disturbes me. To think that we rose and fell in less then 50 years is quite a sad concept. And the only way to fix it would be governmental reform.

Society and government are bound forever and the problems of one are automatically the problems of another.

Otherwise, why would we have government if not to form a better society.

remind me again how social issues can be fixed by government intervention? such ideas only work where minorities are relatively small and can be easily suppressed, when they arent small enough you get the paris riots.

Why suppress races? Its not a racial problem, it is a social one. The rich garner all the power once again, and the poor are greatly disadvantaged, while the growing middle class continues on to becoming more and more ignorant and less and less involved in the process of democracy.

I find it sad when people require government as their social crutch.

It is the social crutch.

Government is formed on the concept of contract. People make a contract(a consitution) to give up absolute freedom for a better life, for everyone.

"classic family values"

It isnt nonsense, in my opinion 2 decades from now the root of our problems and most likely the industrialized world's problems will be the fact that these values will compeletly cease to exist.

social order needs to be established through social chaos, it cannot be maintained through government.

The path to communism as written by Marx himself.

I am afraid that is not the process of democracy, for democracy to work there has be order not choas, and government is meant to keep stability.

What are you a conservative anarchist?

suck up money

Last time I heard, they were trying to balance the budget and reduce the debt.

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I have to admit, these philosophical topics are always fun

I didnt say you were ignorant, I said you were xenophobic. I am quite sure you are aware of outside ideas and undestrand them, but the fact that you reject them without fully encompassing their point of view is quite buffonish, I guess

where exactly do you get that I dont understand all points of view? I always make sure to understand both (or all) sides of a cultural clash before I comment on it. not being able to understand elements I've never had close contact with is far from xenophobic.
besides, wouldnt you call cursing one point of view without understanding it buffonish and xenophobic? I guess we're on even ground

In my opinion if a messure like this ever approache the UNs Security Council then it would invariably lead to its disolvation. I am just saying that the UN does use these powers against other countries, just not the ones in power in the UN.

heres where I'm confused... you oppose such strong armed tactics, but you agree that the UN uses them. in countless ways you appear to support the UN's tactics... and that makes a small paradox, if you see.

In my any presidential candidate only truely speaks once every 4 years, and even then they say what other think will make them win and what is supported by their party and the special interest groups backing them.

hey, I personaly wish they were held to their word. this is an absolute perversion of democracy, and I dont like it. but either way, you cannot blame people for agreeing with a lie that they are fed.

but the loss of power in the middle class is truely what disturbes me. To think that we rose and fell in less then 50 years is quite a sad concept. And the only way to fix it would be governmental reform.

I understand that theres an undeniable gain of power in the upper classes, but I dont think that quite equates to a loss of one in the lower classes. 99/100 times the actions of the upper class reflect the benefits of the middle and lower. why? because the upper classes feed parasitically off the lower classes, so its not in their benefit to make them weaker.

Society and government are bound forever and the problems of one are automatically the problems of another.

Otherwise, why would we have government if not to form a better society.

I'm so glad to see you're doing your studying

yes, government was established to create a better society, but it wasnt established to be society's fix-all. government is supposed to tape up the small tears in society, not wrap it up in a static cocoon.

Why suppress races? Its not a racial problem, it is a social one

very good question, ask any European philosopher.
ever wonder why the European countries are the ones dealing with "home grown" terrorists, while in America the worst case scenario is that a first generation muslim is recruited by outside forces? because yes, there is xenophobia here, but it doesnt exactly descend down from government action. detainies in guantanamo are (for all I know, and since I'm rather well informed...) mostly external forces. at the very least its an illusion that keeps internal problems from flaring.

The rich garner all the power once again, and the poor are greatly disadvantaged, while the growing middle class continues on to becoming more and more ignorant and less and less involved in the process of democracy.

back to the establishment of democracy, the upper classes were supposed to have power. the reason the middle classes rarely have the power in a democracy is because they are never trusted with it. until the middle classes wisen up (hey look at us, we're the best examples of middle class as far as I've seen) there really isnt a reason to complain.
and let me point out, the middle classes would have power if they wanted it. the american middle class is becoming smarter and smarter, and more ignorant, that I cant deny, but to say that power is being taken from us... eh... not so much

It is the social crutch.

Government is formed on the concept of contract. People make a contract(a consitution) to give up absolute freedom for a better life, for everyone.

and the contract requres forfeighting freedoms for comfort and defense, I personally am more than comfortable with my freedoms, and smart enough not to need the defense, so I'm fine with very little government

yes, government is a trade off, and in parts of the world it is indeed a crutch and a body cast. but thats not what government is supposed to be. government is supposed to be a fix for small problems irreperable by society, social schisms are not one of those.

It isnt nonsense, in my opinion 2 decades from now the root of our problems and most likely the industrialized world's problems will be the fact that these values will compeletly cease to exist.

aha! so you are conservative

I dont truly think there are a set of "family values" to live by, saying that there are is xenophobic. islamic communities dont have the same values that urban communities or rich communities have. yes, there should still be a family that kids can go home to, but to establish "this is how it should be" as a social norm goes against everything I know is true.

The path to communism as written by Marx himself.

then he had a wierd way of showing it... creating a philosophy of government that plaster-castes all of society into one mold. I think thats the major part where we philosophically depart

I am afraid that is not the process of democracy, for democracy to work there has be order not choas, and government is meant to keep stability.

What are you a conservative anarchist?

government is meant to establish order as pertains to a group, it isnt meant to establish order as to the people of the group. thats the big difference, where government goes from being a bandaid to being a body cast.

Last time I heard, they were trying to balance the budget and reduce the debt.

like FDR balanced the budget?
in my opinion the conservatives need to stop spending money on useless military branches, and the democrats need to stop spending it on affirmative action and welfare and the like. at the very least how about they streamline the institutions they do make, and remove the ones that serve no purpose? because we have ancient institutions that do nothing but suck up money still hanging around.

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I have to admit, these philosophical topics are always fun

To each his own, I guess...

wouldnt you call cursing one point of view without understanding it buffonish and xenophobic? I guess we're on even ground

There is a differance, but I digress with a very small statement of agreement.

heres where I'm confused... you oppose such strong armed tactics, but you agree that the UN uses them. in countless ways you appear to support the UN's tactics... and that makes a small paradox, if you see.

I dont oppose them I accept the fact that they are quite impossible in the current world power standing. The UN could only use these powers against someone who didnt have a veto power in the Security Council, the US has a permanent one. So you can see why it is quite impossible for the UN to remotely mobolize against the US in just about anything, untill ofcourse it has an even more powerful ally backing it. That is why I use Seirra Leone as an example, they wont even be able to hold a seat in the lower house for the next decade, however the suspeceted leaders of that country hold tremendous power in that region and even world power.

It all comes down to whos who in the world, and even more to who your friends are.

hey, I personaly wish they were held to their word. this is an absolute perversion of democracy, and I dont like it. but either way, you cannot blame people for agreeing with a lie that they are fed.

Well, if they were well educated then they wouldnt bother agreeing in the first place.

99/100 times the actions of the upper class reflect the benefits of the middle and lower. why? because the upper classes feed parasitically off the lower classes, so its not in their benefit to make them weaker.

What the rich are trying to do is keep us in our place, to make us relise that we cant change the world or even the country. And the fact that we, as the middle class, are just contempt with that is quite wrong. Now statistically we are not growing weaker in wealth, and poverty is plumiting world wide, however we are lossing power and being dissolutioned in many of our human rights.

yes, government was established to create a better society, but it wasnt established to be society's fix-all.

Its supposed to keep society stable, its supposed to keep us safe, its supposed to make us prosper and organize us in tasks that no one can compelete alone.

In my opinion the government should be doing more to make the future brighter, but it all boils down to how you view the government roll. And in my opinion, if I am to give up full freedom to follow rules I would want something quite big in return.

while in America the worst case scenario is that a first generation muslim is recruited by outside forces?

Um... I dont know if you missed some current events but do the words Virginia Tech mean anything to you.

If that person isnt a terrorist I dont know what is...

there really isnt a reason to complain.

For 50 years we have held the power, for 50 years there has been a rise in wealth aroudn the world, a rise in things accomplished for humanity. Now take away our power and we will digress at least 100 years in political developement.

And it seems that you are deep rooted in more traditional ways, the powers lies in the people, all of them.

be a family that kids can go home to, but to establish "this is how it should be" as a social norm goes against everything I know is true.

Well, what I want is more active teenagers. The more kids spend time with parents, mentors, and teachers or working and learning the more productive they will be latter in life. Not to mention the further away from bad influence.

aha! so you are conservative

In certain matters yes, but I know I am die hard foot washing hippy liberal.

plaster-castes all of society into one mold.

Well technically society is whole, not fragmented.

government is meant to establish order as pertains to a group, it isnt meant to establish order as to the people of the group. thats the big difference, where government goes from being a bandaid to being a body cast.

Well we are individuals, arent we?

I mean, personally, I would want the government to treat me so, and not as mindless speck in a group, a whole, a semi conscious mob of human tissue.

like FDR balanced the budget?
in my opinion the conservatives need to stop spending money on useless military branches, and the democrats need to stop spending it on affirmative action and welfare and the like. at the very least how about they streamline the institutions they do make, and remove the ones that serve no purpose? because we have ancient institutions that do nothing but suck up money still hanging around.

We would be removing the beurocracy out of democracy.

And I think it will take more money to clear out and start fresh then to let the red tape pile on, someday something will snap and then the fix will come, why worry now?

No more useles military spending???

But come on we are soooo close to the light speed engine, and I can just smell the courscants from 17th century france that we can get from that almost completed time machine. No? Fine, how about some lasser heated soup?

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The path to communism as written by Marx himself.

then he had a wierd way of showing it... creating a philosophy of government that plaster-castes all of society into one mold. I think thats the major part where we philosophically depart

REALLY off topic, but you haven't read Marx. Marx wrote of the uselessness of government action to actually help the people, that they only create a state of slightly less despair so the people will be placated. Stalinistic dictatorships were/are fascist not communist.

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REALLY off topic, but you haven't read Marx. Marx wrote of the uselessness of government action to actually help the people, that they only create a state of slightly less despair so the people will be placated

the very concept of a monetary or physical assistance from the government precisely fits what I'm pointing out. its still trying to fix society's problems through (a rather shallow) government intervention.

Stalinistic dictatorships were/are fascist not communist.

yes, I'm aware.

you actually follow these debates...? wow. you have too much time on your hands...

To each his own, I guess...

then why do you bother?

I dont oppose them I accept the fact that they are quite impossible in the current world power standing

so... you despise that America has that power and rant against it, but a bunch of European countries with Russia, China and America having a slight power to stay their hand is fine?
wierd concept.

Well, if they were well educated then they wouldnt bother agreeing in the first place

ok, let me again point out that education here is among the best in the world.
now I'll move on to my point:
you ever wonder why people dont vote? because they know they're being lied to and dont like it. (seems to me like your education point has fallen on hard ground) its not true that they have no power in their vote, simply that they cannot force the president into action once he's in office.

in the end its a too-much education crisis, I guess.

What the rich are trying to do is keep us in our place, to make us relise that we cant change the world or even the country. And the fact that we, as the middle class, are just contempt with that is quite wrong. Now statistically we are not growing weaker in wealth, and poverty is plumiting world wide, however we are lossing power and being dissolutioned in many of our human rights.

this is all a bunch of nanzy-panzy bullshit (excuse my french). I wont deny that theres corruption in government, but it has to do with slipping certain people money, not with some evil-empire scheme to take over the world and enslave the free world's populace.
and, let me point out, people are already "contempt with" (you meant "content with") the current system of government

how about you stick to logical claims instead of this street-corner-prophet crap?

Its supposed to keep society stable, its supposed to keep us safe, its supposed to make us prosper and organize us in tasks that no one can compelete alone.

t'is the job of buisness. ever wonder why its a capitalism?

Um... I dont know if you missed some current events but do the words Virginia Tech mean anything to you

are you joking? Vtech was not an organized militant strike, it was some supremely twisted kid who thought the world hated him. how about YOU pay attention to modern events?
that you even brought this up and tried to twist this to your use pisses me off.

a terrorist is someone who tries to instill terror in a wide group of people (Americans, for example) through the murder of countless innocents. always always always in a plan for some wider effect, such as to bring attention to abortion.
this kid was a disturbed child. he tried to kill 20+ of people he knew best with no greater purpose, no instillation of fear was intended or needed for his purposes. he needed simply to slaughter countless people for his last satisfaction

how about you choose a less hostile topic to twist around your propogandous finger.

For 50 years we have held the power, for 50 years there has been a rise in wealth aroudn the world, a rise in things accomplished for humanity. Now take away our power and we will digress at least 100 years in political developement.

I think you're twisting a few facts here, first of all you cannot compare the meagre power changes going on now to the 1920's, second you cannot attribute world wealth to the fact that people screamed at their politicians more.

And it seems that you are deep rooted in more traditional ways, the powers lies in the people, all of them

granted, but the point of the system isnt that they dont have power, rather that it gets used to their betterment, and not to their mistake.

Well, what I want is more active teenagers. The more kids spend time with parents, mentors, and teachers or working and learning the more productive they will be latter in life. Not to mention the further away from bad influence.

thats kids being active, not "family values"
family values is dad as the breadmaker, mom as the housekeeper (not to mention its a dad and a mom) children are polite and go to church every sunday etc. etc.

Well technically society is whole, not fragmented

society is VERY fragmented, and should only be considered in that light. there is no greater combonation of parts than what you see.

Well we are individuals, arent we?

which is why we shouldnt all be treated like one individual, which is all government is capable of.

I mean, personally, I would want the government to treat me so, and not as mindless speck in a group, a whole, a semi conscious mob of human tissue.

so you want government to wait on you hand and foot...
yes, because that couldnt possible cost trillions of dollars to do for 300 million people

And I think it will take more money to clear out and start fresh then to let the red tape pile on, someday something will snap and then the fix will come, why worry now?

you dont seem to understand

its government that creates those difficult breaks

not society, when society breaks it very quickly mends itself. for gods sake, consider how much fear-ridden racism there was only 5 years ago as compared to now.

But come on we are soooo close to the light speed engine, and I can just smell the courscants from 17th century france that we can get from that almost completed time machine. No? Fine, how about some lasser heated soup?

technological advancement has, and will always be, developed by buisness. spending money on research, while costly, is a lot better than buying a bunch of new harriers that will go out of use in a matter of decades.

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Stalinistic dictatorships were/are fascist not communist.

Yes, I know.

I never said communism existed on our planet, if it did we would have no need for democracy.

the very concept of a monetary or physical assistance from the government precisely fits what I'm pointing out. its still trying to fix society's problems through (a rather shallow) government intervention.

True communism would not function this way, all the government would have to provide is even ground for everyone. They dont just give out money, they just make equality by litterally making every single person able to run affairs of their own without direct interference, yet at the same time being part of a whole, an equal whole.

then why do you bother?

I wouldnt necesarily call these fun, the fun thread died long ago when Sarcasm and Umbra left us.

However, I do hope for more cynical fun threads once again, so I stick around and argue.

so... you despise that America has that power and rant against it, but a bunch of European countries with Russia, China and America having a slight power to stay their hand is fine?
wierd concept.

I dont despise it, I despair at it. The despair that we have learned nothing from history, everything falls from grace and power, and the way America treats the world makes me feel sick as to what will happen when grace and power does fade away.

I think that the power the other countries hold they wield with equal selfishness, however at least they dont boast and brag. Its not much better, but being a native I support them more.

in the end its a too-much education crisis, I guess.

Wrong, that is a small minority of the populace. American's dont vote because to them voting takes time, and in a world where everything means moeny, time means money even more.

People just dont have the time to vote, many want to, but they cant get away from their jobs or their families. In my opinion we are about to reach critical isolationism, where everyone will care for themselves and no one else. We are lossing common morals and it is making our society waine.

I wont deny that theres corruption in government, but it has to do with slipping certain people money, not with some evil-empire scheme to take over the world and enslave the free world's populace.
and, let me point out, people are already "contempt with" (you meant "content with") the current system of government

Oh come now, evil-empire. I said we were losing power, and in my opinion its a bad thing since I am part of the middle class and am likely to stay there till I die. So to me it is a big deal if one person isnt equal to another just because he/she has more money.

And I meant contempt, I dont think we are content yet, we resent the current way things are run, but we arent doing anythin about it.

t'is the job of buisness. ever wonder why its a capitalism?

Bussiness?

How so?

Every wonder what is a capitalsim? Because technically that is poor gramar, and not only that but our government is not capitalistic it is a free market but it is also socialistic.

a terrorist is someone who tries to instill terror in a wide group of people (Americans, for example) through the murder of countless innocents. always always always in a plan for some wider effect, such as to bring attention to abortion.
this kid was a disturbed child. he tried to kill 20+ of people he knew best with no greater purpose, no instillation of fear was intended or needed for his purposes. he needed simply to slaughter countless people for his last satisfaction

He was trying to instill terror, and in my opinion he did, same with columbine and how about the militant groups in our country. Last time I heard the government completely shuts down on one particullar day.

I think you're twisting a few facts here, first of all you cannot compare the meagre power changes going on now to the 1920's, second you cannot attribute world wealth to the fact that people screamed at their politicians more.

Not to the fact that we screamed more, to the fact that we mattered more.

granted, but the point of the system isnt that they dont have power, rather that it gets used to their betterment, and not to their mistake.

So in your opinion the government should be controlled by the elite?

Then why call this a democracy, let us forever proclaim their leadership and allow them to control us in the form of an autocracy. According to you this would be better, since the elite can reason so much better then us.

Wisdom and knowledge are two different things, and it is often the wise fool who is right, not the pompous intellectual.

which is why we shouldnt all be treated like one individual, which is all government is capable of.

We live in what historians call an age of hyper individualism, everyone is trying to be differnt and in following through with the effort they still try to fit in to the shallowness of our society.

Now I dont see why the government should resort to this too.

family values is dad as the breadmaker, mom as the housekeeper (not to mention its a dad and a mom) children are polite and go to church every sunday etc. etc.

Those are definetly not my values. Those are very sexist values, and are by far outdated. I was talking about the values such as the 'dinner table' and the guiding parents.

society is VERY fragmented, and should only be considered in that light. there is no greater combonation of parts than what you see.

There are sub sections of it, but they all blend in together, in my opinion we make one huge living organism. Each part has the ability to help or hurt each other but they are tied together. Sure there are differances but they are quickly vanishing as ideas and cultures are shared at amazing speeds.

so you want government to wait on you hand and foot...

No!!

You are obviously not getting what I am trying to describe. I want me to count in the government, I want my rights to be my rights, and I want me to be considered as just that, me.

technological advancement has, and will always be, developed by buisness. spending money on research, while costly, is a lot better than buying a bunch of new harriers that will go out of use in a matter of decades.

You are right, technological advancements are going to be made by bussiness for commercial goods, not weapons. The greatest advancements will still be made by government scientists. The mindless improvemtns by corporate ones.

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Meh, whatever. You don't need to be smart to be a surgeon, and every surgeon starts somewhere. Note that it helps to be raised differently (like that surgeon or the 15 year old in college). How much did you learn from high school, anyway? That's what I thought.

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