buddygezus

Join Date 02/2007

InFAQ #3 – Exactly How Do Influence Starbases work

Finally, and most importantly, I have InFAQ #3, about Influence Starbases.

If you build an econSB, then any friendly planet in it's radius gets the bonus, and you can see this bonus if you go to the 'details' screen from the planet screen.

When I build an Inf. SB, the nearby planets do not show the +x% influence bonus on the detail screen.

-The +x to influence is listed as a percentage bonus, but a percentage of what, and added to what?

The manual helpfully says that the influence starbase only affects influence within it's area of affect, but InfSB allows my borders to extend well beyond it own area of affect, so can the affects of its influence bonus can be felt beyond it's borders?

I guess my question is this.
-Is the InfSB a SOURCE of influence in itself?
-Both the MilSB and the EconSB augment the planets/ships within there radius. But an InfSB set up far, far away from any friendly planets can still expand your borders (and in many cases create 'pockets' of territory with the borders of opposing civs) and can get planets to flip merely under the pressure of their own influence. This implies they create influence?
-If so, does the distance between the InfSB and a planet matter?
-If I really want a planet to flip to me, should I build the InfSB next to the planet?

Perhaps I am thinking about it wrong. Perhaps every square on the map has a ratio of influence for all the civs, based on its distance (?) to planets creating influence plus bonuses?

So actually me real question is this!
When building an InfSB, should I put it near enemy planets I want to flip to my side or should I put it near friendly planets to boost their Inf Points and thus get the opposing planets to flip. (And conversely, if an enemy planet is influencing one of my own, and I wish to stop it revolting, should I place my InfSB near my planet doing the influencing or the planet being influenced.)

-Where should the InfSB's go?

a) near my planets?

near opponents planets? c) place it so that both my and opponents planets are in the InfSB radius?

Locked Post

Advanced Search

Watch this post

Do not email me updates for this post Email me updates for this post

Successfully updated karma reason!

DivineWrath

Join Date 05/2006

+135

I find that influence starbases are most useful when you are trying to culture flip planets.

-Is the InfSB a SOURCE of influence in itself?
-Both the MilSB and the EconSB augment the planets/ships within there radius. But an InfSB set up far, far away from any friendly planets can still expand your borders (and in many cases create 'pockets' of territory with the borders of opposing civs) and can get planets to flip merely under the pressure of their own influence. This implies they create influence?

'Any' starbase will create some influence. Influence starbases are designed to multiply this value to overwhelming levels.

-If so, does the distance between the InfSB and a planet matter?
-If I really want a planet to flip to me, should I build the InfSB next to the planet?

Not sure, and Yes. It helps to have friendly planets nearby when culture fliping planets, but it isn't nessary. The effects is strongest when the influence starbases are next to planets you want to flip.

-Where should the InfSB's go?

a) near my planets?

near opponents planets? c) place it so that both my and opponents planets are in the InfSB radius?

Ussually you want your influence starbases to be next to planets you wish to flip. There are however, times when you want to place influence starbases next to your planets to prevent them from flipping.

________________
I hope this helps.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Perhaps I am thinking about it wrong. Perhaps every square on the map has a ratio of influence for all the civs, based on its distance (?) to planets creating influence plus bonuses?

You hit the nail on the head here. The colors just show who has the most influence at a given position.
Influence starbases only *amplify* that influence within their radius (that's where the percentage comes into play... your influence at that position is increased by the percentage. And if it is highest afterwards, the color of the area changes). So build them close to enemy planets you want to flip and close to your own planets if you want to defend them from foreign culture.

Successfully updated karma reason!

If precentage of influence was present everywhere and not only around colonies and starbases then all space should belong one spehere of influence or another. But it does not. Lot of space is outside of spheres of influence.

Successfully updated karma reason!

The influence dies with distance and can presumably reach zero.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Maybe you are right. However, in such case it no longer holds true that "every square on the map has a ratio of influence for all the civs". I got the impression that Todd was replying to this paragraph:

Perhaps I am thinking about it wrong. Perhaps every square on the map has a ratio of influence for all the civs, based on its distance (?) to planets creating influence plus bonuses

Successfully updated karma reason!

I did some testing, started with an alien planet with 48 IP and 0.09 alien influence, most of that mine.

I built one ISB just next to it, influence jumps to 0.18... so apparently an effect of 5 IP. I built 2 other ISBs, at 2 and 4 squares away. Upgraded with low end influence modules up to the +30 one, and monitored changes in the influence. Based on this it seems:

* An ISB by itself will project 5-10 IP into its environment.
* Module upgrades will add to this value, and the number is the absolute IP value, not a percentage.
* Modules stack. ISBs stack. (And would stack with planets, but this is just speculation.)
* The effect is greater close by, but it does not drop in inverse proportion to the square of distance, but more slowly and gradually.

Successfully updated karma reason!

That's why I don't build ISB's unless I'm close to an influence victory. Cause I don't understand the freakin' things. :-/

Successfully updated karma reason!

I performed further experiments, and I think I can put forth a straightforward theory on the effects of ISBs. In the spirit of Hypothetical-Inductive science that acknowledges the merits of Popperian Falsificationism, one can make predictions on any planned influence starbase project and give an estimate on the expected influence effect on enemy planets. So far the predictions hold pretty well, with a +/-100% range of error (in the unusual case), typically predictions can be very accurate but there is still some anomalous behaviour so I'm not sure if the theory is valid once and for all.

In a nutshell:
* What was previously said is valid - ISBs simply project their own IP into the environment, and stack blatantly linearly. The effect of one ISB is the same regardless of any friendly planets or ISBs in the vicinity. (But of course you pit it against all the hostile planets around.)
* The range of influence effect seems to be actually smaller than the starbase effect radius - at a range of 8 I did not receive any effect from my ISB, so maximum range is 7?
* The modification from range is linear. Consider the effect of building a Franchise Headquarters (+30) next to a planet with 44 IP at different ranges:

(d=1, 1.00?)
d=2, 0.85
d=3, 0.70
d=4, 0.55

Unless you can provide some data to refute this, or some considerations that still should be looked into, I'd like to hammer this kind of data into the wiki pages on the subject.

Successfully updated karma reason!

So what your saying is that a ISB has its own set IP value and further modules enhance that value, it also stacks with other ISB in range?

So it doesnt really matter where you build a ISB (in your border, enemy or empty space at the end of the galaxy), the ISB will always have its default IP value to work with?

The influence value is also strongest at the starbase location and lowers down as you reach the border of the sphere? Which would mean if trying to convert a enemy planet with a ISB, youd want it as close to the planet in question as possible?

However what im confused about is the sphere of influence on planets, how is the size of that sphere defined? This one seems to be the most confusing thing to figure out for me.

If the above is correct, the optimal layout of a ISB would be so its sphere of influence covers both a enemy planet AND a player planet (with a decent IP value to begin with), so that the influence moduls further enhance my IP over the enemy planet?

Whats the default IP value of starbases bytheway? Surely it has to be covered somewhere?

Successfully updated karma reason!

That's why I don't build ISB's unless I'm close to an influence victory. Cause I don't understand the freakin' things

what not to understand? if you want a planet (or several) but you don't want to go to war, plop a few of these things as close to the planet(s) as possible and it'll flip (assuming it doesn't have the re-education center built on it). seriously, i've never seen the AI able to handle 4+ InfSBs suddenly appear on their doorsteps. sometimes they'll go to war, but even with the recent tweaks it doesn't seem all that likely unless the AI in question is far more powerful than you.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Thank you very much for the numbers varis. Put them in Wikipedia. I've always wanted to know this!

I still wonder though:
- How about the restaurant? Does it add to Starbase IP?
- How about races with built in influence?
- And what's the role of loyalty? Do the Yor simply require another 100 IP before they start thinking about flipping? Or another 400 IP?

My guess is that the IP in excess of 400 more are used for some kind of chance (something like +1% flip chance for 5-10 additional IP). And the flip chance could be divided by 1+loyalty/100. But I'm only guessing. I haven't done any hard math to find out.

Successfully updated karma reason!

So it doesnt really matter where you build a ISB (in your border, enemy or empty space at the end of the galaxy), the ISB will always have its default IP value to work with?

Right. But also remember your influence spreads much further than the set border. The border is just where your influence is strongest, and exceeds some threshold.

So even in someone else's turf, there is a residual amount of influence that you have, that gets amplified by the isb. With 4 ISBs at +255, you can usually take out a system if you're paitent.

What I didn't get for the longest time is the reduction of the bonus as you go further away from the ISB. I would build mine like eco starbases, trying to maximize coverage. If you do that, you will be very frustrated with ISBs...

My current approach is to just use 1 or 2 along my border trying to get one of their planets. Once that one flips, you get a domino effect, and keep building them in the neighboring systems.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Actually, even in obscene games, I have never seen any enemy planet except the Yor resist a single maxed out ISB for more than a few turns. Which is good because after 4-5 turns, they may declare war on you.

drrider

Successfully updated karma reason!