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Join Date 10/2006

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Just an article

but Democrats vowed they still would find a way to force President Bush to change course in a war that has claimed the lives of more than 3,000 U.S. troops

"We must heed the results of the November elections and the wishes of the American people,

"The American people do not support escalation. Last November, voters made it clear they want a change of course, not more of the same,"

this has got to be an example of "give a man an inch and he'll want a mile". Democrats were elected in a very VERY slim slim slim majority, this doesnt set any "precedent" or "declare the mindset of the American people".
worst of all is the "we'll find a way" idea, thats not how the government was designed to work. in fact its created diametrically opposed to this idea, a small majority should not express a lot of power.
Frankly Dems are becoming both imperialistic and ambitious at an alarming rate. They are alarmingly naive for people supposed to run the government (thank god the victory wasnt a landslide)

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I never said I've seen more.
I'm pointing out that what you've seen doesn't qualify you to be ghandi, despite the fact that you like to throw that up there.

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Sure I am no better than any member here. But, it annoys me deep inside when someone distorts the world with economical theories that dont really apply in a 'real' world scenario.

The fact that you are spitting out capatalistic facts that I am well aware of makes it just a tad worse.

Plus, your ego isnt helping either. I know I sound cliche since that isnt even the right way to use the term ego.

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But, it annoys me deep inside when someone distorts the world with economical theories that dont really apply in a 'real' world scenario.

they aren't simple theories, and they do apply.

Plus, your ego isnt helping either. I know I sound cliche since that isnt even the right way to use the term ego.

and I know I have ego problems, but I've long since given up taking the high road. let alone on an internet forum.

besides, your hardly one to talk, you said that you're justified in judging the state of the world's education simply because you've gone to Europe and lived there a few years. that knocks me flat on my ass, its completely egomoniacal.

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At least it better than yours.

All you have is Statistics, show me one statistic that is 100% true

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aha, now thats funny.
statistics aren't 100% accurate or "true" (wrong usage of the word)
they are generalizations.

At least it better than yours.

hardly.

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Prove that they arent. Without the use of other peoples information.

Throw some opinion into it that isnt brainwashed and so predictably American.

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King of most

>cough<

There's no arguing with that, with America's economic and industrial capacity no country in the world can compare, however if the EU gets its butt in gear (not likely, all the member countries hate each other, true story) the combined industrial and economic power would outstrip that of the US (by pure mathematical addition). Hm, I guess I don't have a general point, only to say that the "King of most" phrase isn't likely to stay true for long, there are several rapidly expanding economies that will overtake those of the UK and US within a decade or so, and others within two or three decades. Basically because, with America, while its economy is undoubtedly HUGE, it has little room for expansion, there is a such thing as critical mass, and while its expansion (and that of the UK) will continue for many years/decades to come, there will come a moment where a sudden deficit of income will cause the economies to drop like a stone tied to a brick. It is not wise for countries like the UK and the US to rest on their laurels saying "We're the biggest countries in the world and we dominate everything" because that won't always be the case, and its not as if other countries will come to our aid as frankly, we're pretty hated.

Sorry if I interjected there I haven't really read the argument between you and The Emperor so I can't understand it and I don't wish to start another debate right on top of that one, but I was just brushing through the post and saw those three little words (no, not I love you) and felt inclined to poke a little hole in them.

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Throw some opinion into it that isnt brainwashed and so predictably American.

if anything your attitude is predictably american. despite taking a contro-american approach.
I atleast brought up support, you did nothing at all except throw up false credentials.

combined industrial and economic power would outstrip that of the US (by pure mathematical addition

not quite true.
the thing with europe is that most of its industry is compressed, they dont have a lot of global power for that reason. they simply dont have enough of the things people truly need.

not likely, all the member countries hate each other, true story)

its an issue of such a culturally saturated region.
take for instance germany, good luck getting a culture that has been destroyed by surrounding, weaker powers to sit and listen.

there are several rapidly expanding economies that will overtake those of the UK and US within a decade or so

they are going to compete and re-organize global economy, but it won't be as simple as "overtake". nothing ever is (well, USSR v. USA was... but enough about that)
its quite simply impossible really for a power to go beyond what we are, the reason the US is so powerful is because (frankly) the world has been our bitch for 50 years, exploitation abound. we are the absolute pivot of global economy, also making us the epitomy of the global economy
to put it simply: we are the best that any country could be in our time. (ecopolitically)

with America, while its economy is undoubtedly HUGE, it has little room for expansion,

its true, but merely because, like I said, the world doesn't have anyplace for us to expand to. everything is in our power.

there will come a moment where a sudden deficit of income will cause the economies to drop like a stone tied to a brick.

that has never happened, and never will happen in a socially stable environment.
not to be mellodramatic, but empires crumble slowly, they dont collapse powerfully. we dont go out with a "bang". that would take an internal revolution to occur (like in imperial britain)
an economic collapse that is irreperable and fully crippling will never occur, global economy doesnt work that way. there are smaller depressions which reshape global economy, but nothing that is so deftly crippling that America will crumble from it.

It is not wise for countries like the UK and the US to rest on their laurels saying "We're the biggest countries in the world and we dominate everything" because that won't always be the case, and its not as if other countries will come to our aid as frankly, we're pretty hated.

the US or UK being that poor is frankly impossible, it would take a nuclear war in order for such a collapse to occur (I'm ruling out WW because we are more than powerful enough collectively to survive one with ease)

and yes we're hated, in all regions of the world. its called envy any non-top country thrives off the stuff.

and felt inclined to poke a little hole in them.

I didn't see any hole poking... you basically became one of those corner-street profits who yells out how we're all doomed, save yourselves.

Sorry if I interjected there

no problem.

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I atleast brought up support, you did nothing at all except throw up false credentials.

In my opinion your bringing up false credentials, besides that outdated site, everything else was your pure speculation. Same thing with me, thats what makes a good arguement. The thing is, is that you keep repeating yourself, its like listening to a record player that has a scratch on it.

See its all based on opinion, I know where I am getting my info, but I have to admit that I am twisting it to my needs. Same with you, to prove your point you would have to throw up a web of at least some kind of lies or deception.

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In my opinion your bringing up false credentials

like what?
I haven't said anything except that I have a family that is deeply rooted in economic study. maybe that could be construed as credentials, but they aren't false.

besides that outdated site, everything else was your pure speculation

its a well trusted site that is the number 1 sited resource for college ranking.

I don't agree with linear college ranking, but I wanted to give you something to feed on.

The thing is, is that you keep repeating yourself, its like listening to a record player that has a scratch on it.

because you don't have a counter arguement, you just repeat nonsensical, looping crap.

to prove your point you would have to throw up a web of at least some kind of lies or deception

ad hominem arguement AGAIN

I'm not making any web of lies, everything I've said is baseline accurate. all I've seen from you is useless and erronious conjecture and your "I lived in Iraq (psst, during peacetime)" arguement.

if you want to prove me false, show. dont tell.

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you just repeat nonsensical, looping crap.

I do repeat things, but at least I change my views to fit the arguement. Your like a recording. I could go back to quite a few threads and find the same thing.

show. dont tell.

Interesting, should I give you picture of what Baghdad looked like before you guys started bombing away?

Or maybe the poor, starving, scarred children from Darfur?

Maybe a blind asian man scouring for food?

Or children on the streets in New York?

Pick and choose

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I've seen all of that. but I haven't experienced that.
same goes for you.

how about you stop launching hypocritical arguements.

but at least I change my views to fit the arguement.

I haven't seen you do it yet.

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Maybe not in this thread, but you havent really proven anything new. We are just going over the ground of the Bush and the Elections thread.

I would rather not pursue morals, but it seems that I just dont have anything else to throw at you. We have almost equal footing in information and we can throw facts and theories at each other for eons to come. The thing is I dont think either one of us are compeltely right. However, I am too much of a moderate to prove my point full force. And even though I do critique you, I am a bit above insults(besides the get a life thing, that I was just doing to be funny).

I just dont have much to prove anymore. We have reached a bit of a middle ground.

Heres what I think.
1)Each education system has its benifits. However, you cant rate education on test scores, or even on its students and its criteria. See one thing I did notice is the fact that in Europe a lot of the education is equal no matter where you live. But, here it is based almost purely on the bounty and prosperity of the area.
2)The US is powerful, true. But, like the rest of the world it would fall without other countries.
3)The economic standing wont remain the same, just like in the 90s they thought the economy would never falter, thats the same way a lot of economists think today. However, it is foolish to be believe so, sooner or later another fall will come, and that will be a harsher one.
4)I think that democrats are a good change for Congress. However, I dont much favor them, everytime a Democrat majority comes to Congress tentions spark with Russia.
5)The war in Iraq is becoming more of a burden than a benifit. It is one of two things. A righteous war to show our strength and spread Democracy to a damaged and unstable region. Or a war to keep oil in safe hands. If its the second one, than I think well be going after Venezuela next.

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We are just going over the ground of the Bush and the Elections thread.

this has nothing to do with bush...

We have almost equal footing

...
you haven't provided any proof, thats not "equal footing".

However, I am too much of a moderate to prove my point full force

I wouldn't be so certain.

I am a bit above insults(besides the get a life thing, that I was just doing to be funny

Same with you, to prove your point you would have to throw up a web of at least some kind of lies or deception.

ahyup. enough proof from me needed.

2)The US is powerful, true. But, like the rest of the world it would fall without other countries.

oh come on, thats true about anyplace.

Europe a lot of the education is equal no matter where you live

I highly doubt that.
perhaps its not as noticeable as here, but that is not true. especially with the divisions of 20 something governments.

However, it is foolish to be believe so, sooner or later another fall will come, and that will be a harsher one.

actually this is the more foolish belief.
we survived and thrived after 1893. and that was pretty damn bad.
and world economy doesn't really work that way. Governments do not just "crumble" off "because its their time"
it takes a lot of time for things to change, a lot. now China coming up to a certain [our] level wouldn't be nescessarily impossible, difficult, but not impossible
if your logic makes sense, then the EU is bound for a nuclear meltdown, their funds should collapse with the might of god, their income should plumit like a meteor and their investments should be shot to space.
obviously this isn't happening, the EU is still just crumbling slowly after hundreds of years in power.

5)The war in Iraq is becoming more of a burden than a benifit. It is one of two things. A righteous war to show our strength and spread Democracy to a damaged and unstable region. Or a war to keep oil in safe hands.

its not "one" of two things.
otherwise yes, it would be Darfur or Venezuela

3)The economic standing wont remain the same, just like in the 90s they thought the economy would never falter,

has it?
no not really. the incorporation shot the Euro up, but that only strengthened our economy, and to a certain extent, weakened Europes. our Economy was no doubt god under clinton, but it was no more than it is with bush.

4)I think that democrats are a good change for Congress. However, I dont much favor them, everytime a Democrat majority comes to Congress tentions spark with Russia.

I like democrats, trust me I think that they have a lot of good ideas that need followup. I dont like how they go about their ideas, I dont like how they whine and complain, I dont like how they have ABSOLUTELY NO SPINE. but I like their ideas.
this is why I think they work best as a very powerful minority, and not the weakest majority.

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No matter how much you argue it we did go through a recession, it was pretty damaging in my opinion, were still losing jobs. But, currently I have to admit that we are in a period of rapid growth(as proven by the DIA).

As for the Democrats they are the peoples party more than the Repulbicans are. Plus they want more government involvement in the economy. Sure they whine, but they get things done, they challange a government that is becoming a bit too traditional in a world of change.

Prosperity since 1893?
I think it started in 1812, but that can be argued. Plus your dodging the Great Depression and the era before Wilson, due to weak presidents the nation didnt really 'go' anywhere.

Lastly, I said the web of lies thing direct more at the both of us. It wasnt meant as an insult, more of a constructive arguement. I think we both can admit to bending the information a bit.

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How much is the US debt at now? (foreign debt or whatever you call it)
Thank god i live in Norway (we have one hell of an oil fund).
But now it has gotten so big, that if we use we will "inflate" the economy.
Now thats what i call irony. Wherever you live, be the us or in any rich devolved country there will always be someone complain and questing the goverment.
In the poorer undeveloped countries nobody dares complain.(out of fear)
Example: China, Russia, Iran, Pakistan. Plus loads more.
But returning to the issue at hand, the us economy to day.
As long as you have countries how can make wares cheaper then they could have been made in the us. I see in our country we have loads of people coming from the former soviet union (cccp). Off course the government say that norweigans will not be "replaced" by more cheap labor. But for heavens sake, i have worked all around our country.
Its the same everywhere, you have at the shipyards 10 Norwegians per 100 foreigner.
Now dont get the impression i am racist, they would have felt the same way, if the tables where turned. Soon i will travel and work in their country so they will this way about me.

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Russia is a "second world" country but its fully developed. Its probably one of the only developed countries that has a strugling economy. And trust me people complain plenty, and most work in other countries anyways. As long as you dont fully protest the government and say start running a TV show insulting the president, then you would be in trouble. However, all the rights are there, just not quite fully. But, give it a break its only been less then 2 decades since its been a Democracy.

Our labor force works in other countries only because the economy hasnt caught up to the pay required for high tech jobs(engineering, physics ect) thats why I live here

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As for the Democrats they are the peoples party more than the Repulbicans are

as in many things, the obvious facade does not always follow truth.

How much is the US debt at now? (foreign debt or whatever you call it)

I've explained this lovely little design 3 times already. i'm not doing it again.
debt does NOT mean that we nescessarily owe money. in fact some debt is good.
this much debt isn't all that great, but its not by any stretch of the imagination certain death.

Its the same everywhere, you have at the shipyards 10 Norwegians per 100 foreigner.

people complain all about "losing jobs" and how we're being "outsourced"
but guess which jobs are being outsourced? contrary to emp's beliefs its not our science engineering or management/finance jobs. we gain those by the bundle.

Russia is a "second world" country but its fully developed

from Canadian bacon:
"Cold war? we couldn't afford another cold war! you guys kicked our asses, we're just gonna go finish discovering indoor plumbing. you guys have fun with that cold war"
massively racist, but funny.

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"Cold war? we couldn't afford another cold war! you guys kicked our asses, we're just gonna go finish discovering indoor plumbing. you guys have fun with that cold war"

Ehh.. I have heard better, listen to Political Science by Newman.

science engineering or management/finance jobs

True, but thats cause the worlds still catching up. And its proven that second generation foreigners get these jobs, and a lot of times they arent our citizens so in the end we still lose jobs.

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And its proven that second generation foreigners get these jobs

its called a brain drain.
but guess what, they get only a good percentage of the jobs we create. as in they aren't outsourcing jobs, rather carrying jobs along with their own entry.

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Well that still puts the average "american" citizen in peril, and soon enough outsorcing will happen for higher-end jobs. A few are already going to India and China.

The thing is is that these countries are developing faster than their economy can keep up, plus most of the governments are making sure they have soft currency so that other companies invest in the country at a lower risk of losing profit because the pay for workers there would be quite lower.

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A few are already going to India and China.

again, not really.

Well that still puts the average "american" citizen in peril

no... it benefits the "average american"

The thing is is that these countries are developing faster than their economy can keep up

yeah. they're creating more jobs than they have people for, but these aren't the high-end jobs. rather they create high end jobs in OUR market.

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That is not what I meant at all.

Their economy cant keep up with the demands to pay people for higher end jobs. That is why people move to this country they are paid more. And that is why companies are going over there for manual labor, because a) they dont have to give as many benifits and

they dont have to pay as much.

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and in the end its beautiful for us.

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Not necessarily according to statistics we are still losing jobs, hows that beutiful.

And I really think you should listen to Political Science by Randy Newman, trust me its your kind of song.

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