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Opticron

Join Date 09/2006

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Suggestion: Reverse Engineering

I don't know if this concept has been suggested before, and if it has, I apologize for the redundancy. But if not, the following is a pretty interesting idea for the next version of GalCiv2:

Why not implement Reverse Engineering as a "research" style action in the next version? Perhaps if you acquire or are given an enemy ship -- or, if you invade and capture a planet with more advanced technology than your own on it -- you can spend your Research bar on "Reverse Engineering" a given piece of technology you've acquired in the process.

Example: Your race does not currently possess Phasor technology. A friendly race gives you one of its ships, which happens to be armed with Phasors. You can choose to Reverse Engineer Phasors instead of researching a given technology on your tree for however many turns it may take to Reverge Engineer the Phasors. Ditto for any given tech you acquire that you haven't yet discovered on your own.

Obviously there should be some balancing put into place to ensure that Reverse Engineering isn't overpowered. Perhaps Reverse Engineering is a very lengthy and time-(or resource-)consuming process. Perhaps you need to research HOW to reverse engineer things before you can even begin to do so. And perhaps you need to reverse engineer something on a planet where you've built the specific facilities. Who knows.

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Like the idea overall. I wouldn't want it to be too complex/micromanaged though.

Right now it's way too easy to grab technology. I'd love to have to put some effort into grabbing up tecs off the conquered. It could also add a good bit of flavor to the game, if they make one civ really good at it. (probably the Dregin...)

Would be neat to have some sort of mini-game that at most you'd have about a 50% chance of winning (depending on your stats, based somewhat on luck.), and you'd either get the tech or destroy the item. (and it would cost money to make the try)

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I like it! I have to agree with Gallagher and that it would nice for it to be a simple implementation. But kudos on that, nice idea... Maybe someone has come up with it before, but I'll be darned if I can remember it!

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Good idea, Opticron! I would suggest that Reverse Engineering be a tech you must actually research first, as you already mentioned.

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I'll reverse-engineer my Lucky Ranger!

Then I'll be able to build more such ships before I'd normally be capable of such a feat.

Anyway, this makes me think of X-COM, where you had to reverse-engineer all the high-tech stuff being used against you to even have any hope of winning.

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Reverse Engineering would be awesome. Not sure about the mini-game idea. I suck at mini-games... It'll need some balance, but with Tech trading off... this would make the game alot more fun.

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Yeah, shortly after posting this suggestion it had occurred to me that Reverse Engineering Rangers might be a bit too problematic. Perhaps PreCursor technology cannot be reverse engineered? Or perhaps it can, but the time/cost to do so would be so extraordinary as to make it impractical.

I like the idea of having a 50/50 chance to fail while reverse engineering: either you succeed at the end of the engineering/research attempt, or you destroy the ship/planetary improvement/etc in the process. Sort of adds a nice risk factor to the mix. Do I keep this gifted, advanced warship in my fleet? Or do I risk reverse-engineering it -- with the possibilities of either a) acquiring its tech, and thus having the risk pay off, or

destroying the ship, and thus losing it all?

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This is a really good idea. If implemented with a way to "board" and take over an enemy ship it would be even more practical.

Maybe the reverse engineering mechanics of the game could be based on your level of expertise in the area of reverse engineering, meaning many different tech levels needed to be researched, like with miniaturization. This would increase your overall chances of successfully reverse engineering an item. That way there are 3 different, viable ways to increase your technological prowess.

Overall, a very solid idea indeed.

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Maybe the reverse engineering mechanics of the game could be based on your level of expertise in the area of reverse engineering, meaning many different tech levels needed to be researched, like with miniaturization. This would increase your overall chances of successfully reverse engineering an item. That way there are 3 different, viable ways to increase your technological prowess.

I like that idea, as it adds some balancing concerns to the concept. Another, somewhat similar idea I had was this: that your chance of failure increases directly with the size of the "technology gap" between your current level of tech and the level of what you're trying to reverse-engineer.

In other words, if I have Lasers IV technology, reverse-engineering Phasors might carry a small risk of failure. But if I'm trying to reverse-engineer Phasors, and I've only managed to research up to Lasers II, my risk of failure will be much higher. The bigger the gap, the bigger the chance of screwing up.

This makes sense from both a game balancing perspective and a realism perspective. In real life, it's easier to master that which is only slightly out of one's grasp. The bigger the learning curve, the harder it is to reverse-engineer anything.

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This makes sense from both a game balancing perspective and a realism perspective. In real life, it's easier to master that which is only slightly out of one's grasp. The bigger the learning curve, the harder it is to reverse-engineer anything.

I agree. I think i have a way it might be able to work if ever implimented. Say a ship/fleet is destroyed. Once it is destoyed, it would have a chance to become something like an anomaly, a space ship graveyard or something. By surveying it, you could salvage the wreckage for some bc, but there should be a chance, if the destroyed ships were using a weapon/defence/engine that you dont have yet, for you to have an option to reverse engineer the piece of tech. What youl could reverse engineer from the wreckage would be chosen at random. It could be done either of two ways in game. One would be to take an ammount of bc from your treasury to attempt to reverse engineer it and see if doing so works after an ammont of time, or you could devote research points to it and again wait to see if your efforts pay off. Reverse engineering should definately not be a sure thing though.

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I agree. I think i have a way it might be able to work if ever implimented. Say a ship/fleet is destroyed. Once it is destoyed, it would have a chance to become something like an anomaly, a space ship graveyard or something. By surveying it, you could salvage the wreckage for some bc, but there should be a chance, if the destroyed ships were using a weapon/defence/engine that you dont have yet, for you to have an option to reverse engineer the piece of tech. What youl could reverse engineer from the wreckage would be chosen at random. It could be done either of two ways in game. One would be to take an ammount of bc from your treasury to attempt to reverse engineer it and see if doing so works after an ammont of time, or you could devote research points to it and again wait to see if your efforts pay off. Reverse engineering should definately not be a sure thing though.

An interesting idea, though I think that not having any say over what you're spending your time/money/whatever to reverse engineer from the wreckage might be a bit too much of a penalty. I mean, in order to reverse engineer something, you have to have some sense of what it is you're trying to reverse engineer in the first place. If you were blindly reverse engineering from a pile of junk, with no knowledge of what it was you were trying to figure out, the realism factor wouldn't be satisfied.

I think we all agree, though, that it should not be a sure thing. Much like in real life, attempting to take something apart in order to learn how it works always carries some risks.

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An interesting idea, though I think that not having any say over what you're spending your time/money/whatever to reverse engineer from the wreckage might be a bit too much of a penalty.

True it was just a suggestion really. You could make it so you could pick what to reverse engineer. No more than one item though from the wreckage if there are more, and no more than one reverse engineering project should be done at a time. Either way weather you get to pick or it should tell you what you found, and give you the option to reverse engineer it or just scrap it for some quick bc.

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Agreed on all counts.

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