random50

Join Date 03/2006

1.3 beta 3...interesting rebalance

The bank has finally been fixed (hoorah!) No need to jump straight over banks any more.

Fairly strong downgrade to morale buildings. I think I like this...I've not bothered with the morale research tree at all for a long while because you can get 80% tax rate easily enough without it. Now it looks much more worthwhile. Morale trade goods (which have not been downgraded) are much more worth pursuing now.

The farming tech changes though...I like the idea in principle. Combined with the tougher morale, if you want to pursue a population heavy strategy it now requires more effort and requires you to sacrifice more tiles to farms and entertainment buildings. The problem with it is the 1st xeno farming (which is dirt cheap to research) takes you from 3 to 5 food production, which is a decent increase, but the next 2 pretty expensive farming techs only add 1 each. Seems to me there's even less incentive to research past Xeno Farming now.

Are these changes going to hurt the AI more than the player though? Not had much chance to play it yet. How's everyone finding it?

The secret police center is now potentially worth building. I'd still like to see it fixed to do what it originally claimed and add to *base* morale.

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I would like to see the Hyper Distribution Center and the Galactic Stock Exchange officially fixed.

It is such a simple matter to add a space between the two words in the Tech Requirement fields of each in the PlanetImprovements.xml file to get them working again.

And those two are very worthwhile improvements.

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they need to activate ALL of the buildings in the files... they have alot of inactive buildings...

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I started a new game and noticed the changes to farming - iirc, capitals also start with 12B food capacity instead of 10. I don't know if it had a great effect on me even though I do play a population heavy strategy (two farms on most planets). I did notice that my citizens seemed unhappy but I chalked it down to not getting a morale resource.

Overall though it was a little hard to judge because it is my first proper game on Masochistic (with previous beta, it would give me a mix of incredible and genius AIs and I only did this twice) and so I am having lots of challenges to deal with.

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Well I have gotten my ass handed to me in two last game by Tough AI on Medium map. Granted I got only 2 planets, but still the game seems tougher.

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Did the maintenance cost of the initial colony building go up? Believe it is 14bc/turn now -- wasn't it 10bc/turn before?

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Yep, it used to be 10. That actually makes a significant difference to the colony rush on the larger maps. Again, it's more likely to hurt the AI, which keeps trying to colonize as long as there are empty planets, than the player, who knows when to stop to avoid overstretching starting resources. Though I guess it might make it touger at the top levels where the AI bonuses mean it doesn't suffer too badly financially putting small populations down.

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I sure noticed it after i got about 30 planets in the colony rush and finished with 44 planets. Playing a large map with abundant stars, planets and habital planets with 3 opponents. The AIs got about 44, 35 and 25 planets.

The only problem is I'm sure I'm overextended and won't be able to build up my colonies fast enough ( suicidal difficulty ).

Looks to me like I probably need to limit myself to somewhere around 26 or so planets.

That increase in initial colony building maintance sure is going to make it tough on newbies -- getting a working economy was pretty hard for newbies before.

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Just looking at the planetary improvement changes, outside of a 15% drop in the beginning, and a decreasing drop as you advance in production ability, it doesn't seem that your ability to SPEND has been changed much. Where you are going to see the difference is in your INCOME numbers, other than tourism and trade.

The per tile production of food is now about 3/4 of what it was (you need 4 farms now where you only needed 3 before)[except for your capital, where the reductions for the 1st 2 farm improvements have been compensated for]. The per tile production of morale improvement now ranges from 2/5 at the low end (E Network) to 2/3 for the Zero G and Virtual Reality Ctr. The per tile production of economy improvement is now about 5/6 at the low and high ends, but drops to 2/3 and 3/4 for the Adv market & Trade Ctr respectively.

If you have tactics for world development based on PQ, the net effect is about -1 or -2 for primarily manufacturing &/or research generators (for any extra morale buildings you need), but economic/population worlds' net PQ drop by about 3/4. (You will need ~ a PQ/Tile count of 16 now to have the same outcomes of a PQ 12 world before.)

Needless to say, the relative value of galactic morale & economic resources and wonders have just increased significantly.

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yea I'm finding it harder to get the economy started and it takes a little longer, but once I get stock markets early, the foundation of my economy becomes strong and stable.

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Read thru the XML files and noticed a few other changes too.

The mining add ons for the mining starbases have been upped so that they total 51% now ( up from 44% ).

Cost of NLCs has been increased from 300 SP to 500 SP.

Battle Stations 2,3,4 now add defense as well as offense for starbases.

Economy buildings got a good overhaul.

................................. old ... new .... new ..... old
................................. cost . cost .. bonus .. bonus
Market Center........... 35..... 30 ....... 8 ..... 10
Adv. Market Center.. 60..... 40 ..... 10 ..... 15
Trade Center............ 90..... 50 ..... 15 ..... 20
Banking Center...... 250.. 100 ..... 20 ..... 24
Stock Market........... 150.. 120 ..... 25 ..... 30
Stock markets still get +10% morale and +5% influence too.

They changed the factories a bit too

...................................... cost .. Prod .. Maintenance
Basic Factory ................... 50 ..... 6 .. 1
Factory .............................. 75 ..... 8 .. 2
Enhanced Factory ........ 100 .. 10 .. 3
Manufactoring Center . 150 ... 12 .. 3
Industrial Sector .......... 400 ... 16 .. 5

Both the Econ and Prod changes look good to me. Except the initial colony building maintenance going up to 14bc from 10bc but i'll adjust.

Saw the changes with the farms too but don't understand why they didn't even it out more like they did with Econ and Prod. Noticed that they got 2 more buildings in the XML file for Xeno Farms 4 and 5 but they don't have the Techs for them in the Tech XML file. Hopefully they are going to do something with these for the final 1.3 update.

I hope this is all accurrate as it is from reading the XML files -- haven't played far enough to verify it by playing yet.

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Played a bit more and I've noticed that the morale thing seems to be more of an issue at the start of the game. Morale as a race ability seems more useful now.

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Anyone know how the tax income equation for a planet has been changed?

A = INT( SQR ( Pop in millions ) )
B = INT ( A x Tax Rate )
C = INT ( B x Civ Econ Ability )
D = INT ( B x Planet Econ Bonus )
Tax Income = B+C+D

This no longer appears to be accurate.
I know it use to be completely accurate.

Checked it out on a lot of planets and looks like they have added a .85 to .875 modifier somewhere in the process but I cann't seem to figure it out exactly.

At any rate looks like tax income has been reduced 14% or so.

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This no longer appears to be accurate.
I know it use to be completely accurate.

Checked it out on a lot of planets and looks like they have added a .85 to .875 modifier somewhere in the process but I cann't seem to figure it out exactly.

I'm not seeing any change. Is the game you're looking at a mid-late stage game? For as long as I've been checking, there's been a penalty similar to what you're describing...in almost every single game I've played on gigantic, my planets are making less than expected later on in the game. I've never been able to pin it down exactly, but since it's a smooth change (no big drop in the income graph like you see if you cross 20K treasury) I suspect it's applied gradually. What the trigger is I have no idea. I do know, though, that it is *not* simply game turns or number of colonies. Nor does it seem to be total income. Might be total population?

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kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+458

Noticed that they got 2 more buildings in the XML file for Xeno Farms 4 and 5 but they don't have the Techs for them in the Tech XML file. Hopefully they are going to do something with these for the final 1.3 update.

Not likely. They were in at or before release, but were removed over balancing concerns (massive overpopulation problems). They probably won't be back--I'm guessing Brad just found all the farms in the file and made the same adjustments to all of them, without looking at which was which.

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This no longer appears to be accurate.
I know it use to be completely accurate

I'm not seeing any change. Is the game you're looking at a mid-late stage game?

This is just after the colonizing stage. My treasury is well below 20K and in the positive ( about 1-2K ). Game date is 5-1-2226 now but checked the tax income a few turns back. My total populaation is about 132B ( 44 planets x 3B each ).

Don't think I ever bothered to check the tax income equation at a later stage of the game but pretty sure I checked it when Populatios were up in the 6-8B range anyways. Guess I'll just have to keep an eye on it for myself if no one knows more.

Lots of the changes I'm seeing in 1.3beta3x have the feel that they are tweaking the game to make it harder for the player vs AI on higher difficulty levels. I was hoping they could just improve the AI rather than having to tweak the game to make the AI competive.

Well he adjusted the 4th xeno farm building to 8 and the 5th to 10 -- 10 use to be what the 3rd xeno farm gave. And he did adjust the SPs to build the buildings so he was thinking of something.

there is a huge jump in RPs for xeno farms 2 & 3 techs which only increases max population 1B each now.

Xeno Farm 1 tech is 200 RP and Xeno Farm 2 tech is 2000 RP And Xeno Farm 3 tech is 4000 RP.

They could easily add 2 more techs and adjust the RPs to make it so the total RPs to get to the final building are not that much more. It would make for more varied viable strategies.

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Don't think I ever bothered to check the tax income equation at a later stage of the game but pretty sure I checked it when Populatios were up in the 6-8B range anyways. Guess I'll just have to keep an eye on it for myself if no one knows more.

Every time I start a game, I remind myself to keep checking. Invariably I get caught up in the game, don't check or save for 20 turns...and of course that's exactly when the drop happens! Hope you have better luck...

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2415

There will be be more tweaks going in. I'm working on it over the holiday (translation: I'm playing the game for fun and making tweaks based on what I see).

What I want to do is make it so that it's not so freaking easy to crank up the taxes to 79% or whatever. It's just too easy.

We are thinking about making it so that the mining of resources gets into more diminishing returns. Right now, you get like 5 then 6 then 7 then 8. Which rewards the guy who just controls one starbase but really pumps it up over the guy who controls several resources. So I'm thinking of changing the mining factoreis to be more like 5 then 4 then 3 with it 3 for each subsequent one. So addming more modules helps but it doesn't get to be such an explosive thing.

We are also making the techs to get to stock exchanges and such much more expensive. That's supposed to be an end game tech and it's just too easy to get to early.

More AI tweaks to follow to help them be more effective with the new balancing. I think it makes the game feel a bit better.

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What I want to do is make it so that it's not so freaking easy to crank up the taxes to 79% or whatever. It's just too easy

Sure is -- glad to hear that your working on it but sure that i'll miss being able to do it so easy.

We are thinking about making it so that the mining of resources gets into more diminishing returns.

That actually sounds interesting. How about just reversing the mining module effects so you get 12 first. And maybe reduce the total down to 24% or so. I once got a hold of 4 Military resources and with the 176% total bonus -- had like top of the line missiles with just Photonic Missiles.

You do know you increased the mining modules with 3x -- they total 51% now up from 44%. Actually you prob don't care as your playing your own mod as you go, lol.

We are also making the techs to get to stock exchanges and such much more expensive

Come on you had to expect that -- only 1,800 RPs to do Xeno Economics thru Galactic Stock Exchanges. And Stock Markets are only 120 SP to build as of 3X ( down from 150 SP ) --- not exactly end game stuff --- Xeno Farm III is 4000 RP and 120 SP to build for just a 1B max pop increase over Xeno Farm II.

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I see the lack of a space in Hyper Distribution Center, but Galactic Stock Exchange (Exchanges in the file) seems to have the correct spacing already. Am I missing something?

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It's great to hear that it won't be that easy to crank the taxes to 79%. Right now, in my game, that's what I have, and I still have 95% approval. There is no way to displease my people! (ahh.. Bush would love to be in my shoes..)

it's also great to know that you will re-shape the starbases ressources bonuses. It was just too weird the way it actually was.

Finally, don't overpush yourself, Frogboy. You don't really have to work on holidays, it's all right, you need some vacations...

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The Tech Requirement is "AdvancedTrade", when it should be "Advanced Trade".

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Finally, don't overpush yourself, Frogboy. You don't really have to work on holidays, it's all right, you need some vacations

Lol

He's probably having a great time and going for 40 hours straight. LOl

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The mining add ons for the mining starbases have been upped so that they total 51% now ( up from 44%

My bad -- totally built up mining starbase is +56% now, forgot the initial 5%. ( actually I guess it is the 44% which is only 39% ).

Battle Stations 2,3,4 now add defense as well as offense for starbases

My bad, No defense with Battle Stations --there are lines in the XML code for this but apparrently it requires another line that activates starbase defence add ons which isn't in there.

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Really dislike the mining starbase changes. Resources were already unbalancing, now they're just ridiculous. I thought a lot of these changes were made to help the AI. This one disadvantages it far more since it's lousy at claiming and keeping resources.

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I'm going to wait for the expansion... i'm bored of the repetative gameplay and that is the next thing GC2 has to offer that really adds anything worthwhile. Unless of course they add multiplayer... facing an AI opponeant only is satisfying for so long. Many other games to play.

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