Could you give a real example with production by each improvement used, empire wide bonus, spending and splitting settings

I have this problem also.

The numbers are incredibly WAY off, in the middle of my first game, staying all nigh to play which was enjoyable, I noticed this discrepancy and spend 2 hours or so trying to do the calculation in many different ways, sometimes even trying to work backwards.

The result is that I never managed to get it.

Just to show you guys that its completely messed up:

Start new game, Human and everything default

I have Research +10%.

So to test, I put:

100% spending

100% Science
0% Social
0% Military

With only capital giving 24 research.

Even in this simplistic case the calculation is completely wrong.

The resulting science is: 25

yet 10% of 24 = 2.4

This means even if we completely WASTE that 0.4 research, the result should be 26.

Later in the game the numbers get WAY off by literally hundreds.

This really put me off the game and I quit and haven't gone back since, even though I anxiously waited for it.

There are 2 reasons:

1) In Moo2 which was created SO LONG ago, I was able to right-click anything in the colony and get a proper breakdown of the number (which would have been VERY useful in debugging too). The calculation there even included float numbers. Here, there is no breakdown on the things I want to look at most, the others that are broken down are WRONG, and finally the screen that shows the total stats of Reseach and Production becomes WAY OFF when there are special resources on squares that double/quadruple a particular building which means I have to calculate it by hand.

Overall, as a comparison I am using MoO2 and I must say their interface was so intuitive that as soon as I saw it I knew what was what and it REALLY made playing the game a pleasure. You could rightclick anything on any screen anywhere and on a consistant basis there would always be a pop-up with either a description or details.

Even in diplomacy when I try to right-click some tradegoods, it doesn't do anything and I for the love of me don't know what they do.
The right-click on tech also [as far as i recall] doesn't show the tech cost which I find REALLY usefull when weighing up deals.


Lastly, sometimes 90% of my research or my production is wasted because the extra production doesn't rollover.
This has been a major issue with civ and has even been fixed with civ4. It was [IIRC] never an issue with MoO2.

Please rollover the remaining technology points and production points [military AND social] to the next project/tech when the current one ends.


2) Please sort out the algorithm for calculating bonuses and check them yourselves. Its very devastating seeing a planet I expect 100production actually make 60...


There are also someitmes an extra +10% production, or sometimes other things that I simply don't know the reason of exastance for.

It would be great if you could explain them in either the manual or in game so that we know whats going on


I am only explaining the things that are BAD about this game, of course its great on so many levels as well but that doesn't make good conversation in the forum does it?

Planet Earth, late in the game (tiny map): Spending: 100% Military 30% Social 40% Research 30%

2 Factorys (10mp each) Manufacturing Capital (100% industry bonus) Civ Capital (24mp and 24tp and 25% morale)

So basic production: 44 MP and 24 TP

Production 110% (I'm pretty sure the 100% from the Manu Capital are already included here) Morale 25% (same here, comes from the Civ Capital)

Yes, you have the 100% from manufacturing capital and 10% from moon

Relevant Civ-wide stats: Morale +30% Social Production +30% Military Production +30% Research +50%

so we should have:
military production:
44 * 0.3 * (1 + 1.1) * (1 + 0.3) = 7.2 * 2.1*1.3 = 36.03 = 36 This one is correct
social production
44 * 0.4 * (1 + 1.1) * (1 + 0.3) = 36.96 * 1.3 = 48 expected. But during the beta a bug was spotted about empire wide social production not working.
So the formula is more 24 * 0.4 * (1 + 1.1) = 36.96 . Not yet the 38 seen
Research
24 * 0.3 * (1 + 0.5) = 7.2 * 1.5 = 10.8 Not the 8 seen.
Look at post 3, it seems that research bonus are halved.
So it would give: 24 * 0.3 * (1 + 0.25) = 7.2 * 1.25 = 9 if no intermediary rounding but 8 if 7.2 is rounded to 7.

spending:
Social + military + research = 36 + 38 +8 = 82.
Budget give 78.
BUT moon give give free (unpaid) bonus. but that woudln't explain only 4 free BC.

Looking a bit more to formula, if moon bonus is applied after manufacturing capitol, but before empire wide bonus, we have:
military before moon and empire bonus = 24 * 0.3 * (1 + 1) = 26.4 rounded to 26.
Moon bonus => 2 more
empire bonus => (26 + 2) * 1.3 = 28*1.3 = 36.4 rounded to 36
Social before moon = 24 * 0.4 * (1+1) = 35.1 rounded to 35
moon bonus => 3 more
empire social bonus not taken inro account => 35 + 3 = 38 production which is the number seen

But moon bonus give 5 unpaid bc

BTW, rounding before applying moon bonus (or ring for research) before applying empire wide bonus seems to give consistent number for you case on military, social and research, if you accept:
- military bonus used at full effect
- social bonus unused
- research bonus used at half effect.

But it would be nice to watch if those missing half reserach bonus aren't unseen free research bonus. The only way to spot it would be to look at the research really produced for completion of a research when processing a new turn.

Thanks for the analysis. I did some more testing in the mean time and I found out/agree with you on:

-Social bonus is not applied (wtf? Reported in December and not yet fixed??)
-Research bonus halved (seems consistent with the other tests I ran (again, fix it, please))
-Military being correct (more or less).

Now, rounding several times inbetween and thereby decreasing the bonus significantly is not ideal but I can live with it.

Morale still is completely off, but apparently something went wrong in the Bonus Pack, so maybe it will go back to normal with the patch on Friday.
Finally, spending is still undeterminable.

Yes, I agree. A breakdown mouse-over would be great for all parts of the game. That makes it so much easier to figure out what is going on.